# Would you want armed civilians that were non-police patrolling your neighborhood? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401 "2013-07-13T14:54:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/122 "2013-07-19T19:39:16Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > Um … duh? > > What the hell country are you living in? America. I’ve lived with, worked with black people and instructed black children. No one has ever acted afraid of me. I call BS. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/123 "2013-07-19T20:33:39Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I hear a lot of black people here saying their kids shouldn’t have to do that. “Nobody has the right to ask me what I’m doing here” and all that smarty-pants, self-inflated stuff. But for society to be safe we need a social pact to be accountable to each other. I’m sorry, but I don’t want anyone interrogating me or my kid in a place they have every right to be, doing what they have every right to do. Unless they are being a active nusiance, the assumption should be that they belong where they are. Asking someone to explain what they are doing there is begging for a smartass response, anyway. “I’m breathing, that’s what. Now mind your fucking business.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/124 "2013-07-19T20:34:47Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > America. I’ve lived with, worked with black people and instructed black children. No one has ever acted afraid of me. > > I call BS. And so this means that black people can’t be afraid of whites? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/125 "2013-07-19T20:47:13Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t want anyone interrogating me or my kid in a place they have every right to be, doing what they have every right to do. Unless they are being a active nusiance, the assumption should be that they belong where they are. > > Asking someone to explain what they are doing there is begging for a smartass response, anyway. “I’m breathing, that’s what. Now mind your fucking business.” You do realize that interrogating you is ALSO something that someone else has “every right to do,” right? This is what it seems many people in this thread are missing–armed civilians can patrol neighborhoods whether anyone in this thread wants them to do so or not. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/126 "2013-07-19T20:50:58Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > That’s because you, like most conservatives, live in fear: fear of blacks, fear of ideas, fear of secretly being turned gay. You need your big hard gun to make all the fear go away. I’ve reported this to the mods. Let’s see what happens (any guesses?). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/127 "2013-07-19T20:52:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You do realize that interrogating you is ALSO something that someone else has “every right to do,” right? That rather depends on how you define “interrogating”. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/128 "2013-07-19T20:52:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ve reported this to the mods. Let’s see what happens (any guesses?). He seemed to shut the fuck up when I pointed out that I was at least part way to gay… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/129 "2013-07-19T20:58:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That rather depends on how you define “interrogating”. Of course. Everything depends on how you define everything. ---
**Author:** ![desertmonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@desertmonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/desertmonk)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/130 "2013-07-19T21:01:04Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > There seems to be a general tone in this thread that white people must be disarmed or they will shoot black people with abandon because this incident proves" it. Or am I misreading? You’re misreading…well, some people are engaging in the same sort of exaggeration they decry in others. This issue has never been about gun control to me but I think 2nd amendment rights people have flocked to it in defense of “Stand Your Ground”. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/131 "2013-07-19T21:21:10Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You do realize that interrogating you is ALSO something that someone else has “every right to do,” right? Even if you’re correct (and you’re not…an interrogation becomes harrassment the instant someone tells you stop bothering them and you continue…and if you’re doing it aggressively, it could be construed as assault), I posted that I wouldn’t _want_ anyone interrogating me or my kid. That shouldn’t get anyone labled as “self inflated”. It makes them like most peace-loving people. There are other things that people arelegally allowed to do that the vast majority would find intolerable if done to them: - being leered at - being asked for a lewd sexual favor by a stranger on the street - having one’s personal space violated (e.g. standing unnecessarily close to someone) - being ignored if in need of emergency assistance People might have the right to do these things , but for some reason I doubt anyone complaining will be regarded as anything except sane. So why should someone be accepting when a busybody asks them to explain what they are doing somewhere? Why does that make them smart-assy and self-inflated? ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/132 "2013-07-19T22:06:00Z")
> [@desertmonk](#): > > You’re misreading…well, some people are engaging in the same sort of exaggeration they decry in others. This issue has never been about gun control to me but I think 2nd amendment rights people have flocked to it in defense of “Stand Your Ground”. Thanks. It’s clear we all filter through our experiences. I listened to the President’s brief talk today. I’ll reread in light of your response. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/133 "2013-07-19T22:15:35Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I’m sorry, but I don’t want anyone interrogating me or my kid in a place they have every right to be, doing what they have every right to do. Unless they are being a active nusiance, the assumption should be that they belong where they are. > > Asking someone to explain what they are doing there is begging for a smartass response, anyway. “I’m breathing, that’s what. Now mind your fucking business.” We’re talking about police and authority figures here **ywtf**. If you have children and tell them that this is an appropriate response you certainly aren’t contributing to their safety. You can think it’s about race but where I live any teen-ager running at night is apt to get stopped and questioned. Made my daughter late for curfew one night. And that’s why she was running. :smack: My son was stopped running with some friends once and frisked! The police took his pocket knife. Totally unfair. The police were out of bounds. I still wouldn’t advise my kids at that age to smart off to the police. It’s hard for young people to learn to chose their battles wisely and as long as they are not being harmed it’s safer for them to be respectful to authority. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/134 "2013-07-19T22:49:26Z")
There is a huge difference between being stopped by a uniformed public peace officer and some dude who suddenly makes it his business to question you. The latter is not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/135 "2013-07-19T22:56:24Z")
> [@MissIndependent](#): > > It depends on if they were trained on how to use their weapons. I think I would rather just have police around depending on the neighborhood. This is my concern. Any fool can learn to shoot straight. It takes a lot of training and experience to be able to assess a situation, often under stressful circumstances (i.e., darkness), identify a target, evaluate the situation under rules of engagement, determine the correct action, and take the correct action, all in a matter of seconds. Even the professionals sometimes get this wrong. How can someone with a day or two of firearms safety training get it right? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/136 "2013-07-20T00:23:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There is a huge difference between being stopped by a uniformed public peace officer and some dude who suddenly makes it his business to question you. The latter is not acceptable. You’d think that would be obvious by the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/137 "2013-07-20T00:33:52Z")
I live in a large city (Philly), and the cops would shut that down pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/138 "2013-07-20T01:04:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Even if you’re correct (and you’re not…an interrogation becomes harrassment the instant someone tells you stop bothering them and you continue…and if you’re doing it aggressively, it could be construed as assault), I posted that I wouldn’t _want_ anyone interrogating me or my kid. That shouldn’t get anyone labled as “self inflated”. It makes them like most peace-loving people. > > There are other things that people arelegally allowed to do that the vast majority would find intolerable if done to them: > > - being leered at > - being asked for a lewd sexual favor by a stranger on the street > - having one’s personal space violated (e.g. standing unnecessarily close to someone) > - being ignored if in need of emergency assistance > > People might have the right to do these things , but for some reason I doubt anyone complaining will be regarded as anything except sane. So why should someone be accepting when a busybody asks them to explain what they are doing somewhere? Why does that make them smart-assy and self-inflated? OK fine. If you understand that you are only expressing your preferences, then that’s OK, you can like or not like whatever you want. But it seemed like you were doing more than that, like you were saying that there was some objective wrongness to a person questioning your kid, and you based that claim of objective wrongness on the fact that your kid had a legal right to be there. If that were the case, then your argument collapses in on itself because the questioner has a legal right to question. I’ll illustrate it this way. Someone stops and questions your kid. You say to that person “why are you questioning my kid? My kid has a legal right to be there.” Similarly, I am saying to you “why are you questioning that person questioning your kid? They have a legal right to question your kid.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/139 "2013-07-20T17:16:29Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > Does anyone defend Zimmerman who _isn’t_ a middle aged white man who is really really bad at hiding their racism? > [@Bricker](#): > > I’m not sure if I count as “defending Zimmerman.” I believe the verdict was legally correct. > > I am not a middle-aged white man. Well, **Sparky**? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/140 "2013-07-20T17:20:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There is a huge difference between being stopped by a uniformed public peace officer and some dude who suddenly makes it his business to question you. The latter is not acceptable. Neither is the former, unless predicated upon reasonable, articulable suspicion of crime. As long as you are free to disregard the inquiry and go about your business, there’s no harm. “Some dude” has every right to ask me a question. The moment “some dude” crosses the legal line is when he restricts my liberty of movement. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401/141 "2013-07-20T17:21:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Neither is the former, unless predicated upon reasonable, articulable suspicion of crime. > > As long as you are free to disregard the inquiry and go about your business, there’s no harm. > > “Some dude” has every right to ask me a question. The moment “some dude” crosses the legal line is when he restricts my liberty of movement. The law is not the sole consideration in society, Bricker. Just because “some dude” has the legal right to do something is not where it ends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-want-armed-civilians-that-were-non-police-patrolling-your-neighborhood/663401.md?page=8)