Would you agree then that it probably comes down to the teacher and just how far they want to push it?
No.
Marxist literary theory has nothing to do with Marxist economics or communism.
Feminist theory has nothing to do with the misandry associated with it by the ignorant.
Seriously? You’re seriously asking this question?
Okay. Today I did a lesson with my kids on Trump’s move to shrink national monuments. The meat of the lesson was reading an article on the move and asking kids to identify the arguments for and against shrinking the monuments. When we discussed pro-shrinkage arguments, I asked them to imagine being (for example) a logger, someone trained in efficient and safe production of lumber, who lived near the monuments, and how you’d feel about the protection of these forests from logging, what it’d do to your livelihood.
Am I pro-shrinking the monuments? I’m sure you can guess the answer to that, but just in case FUCK NO. But I required my students both to find evidence to support this position, and to imagine themselves in the shoes of someone who would strongly adopt this position.
That’s the eight-year-old version of this process. In college, I rad John Locke and Adam Smith and needed to explain and defend their support of capitalism and free markets. The professors who required me to do this were old-school Marxists, like with Castro beards and shit.
Seriously, urbanredneck, did you never have a teacher ask you to learn about a viewpoint that they themselves did not hold?
My Niece graduated this spring from a similar program, I was surprised about the amount of respect in it.
Outside of people who want to make claims based on rhetoric, what evidence do you have that this is anything but teaching cultural tolerance and advocating for equal rights and mutual respect despite income levels, gender or race?
…and to your great-grandfather, and your great-great grandfather, and your great-great-great grandfather ad nauseum ad infinitum. Feeling insulted is a personal thing that you cannot bestow to either your ancestors nor your offspring, The former are dead and feel nothing, and the latter have their own feelings. This argument of yours is mere puffery.
Just LOVE your language! Spoken like a true SJW! When you cant form a reasonable argument, go for the insult.
Sure makes people on your side look great.
I dont think so. it really comes down to how far a teacher wants to push it.
Would you agree that a teacher might go over the line in pushing things? Remember they have the power of the gradebook.
With the understanding that ignorance is not a pejorative term but the natural state of us all, this is an ignorant statement.
It is an insult to your father and grandfather as it is to mine, because they failed to come to the aid of their fellow citizen. Ignoring that fact does nothing to change our future behavior. There is no shame in being born male or with light colored skin, there should be shame in continuing such institutionalized biases merely to prevent oneself from being embarrassed.
It is innately evil to subjugate fellow human beings to avoid admitting we are imperfect and choosing to continue propagating these imperfect systems.
It is those willful actions, through willful ignorance that should be shameful, and not some biological trait that you had no control over. The shame is through inaction/action and in no way relates to your gender or arbitrary social grouping based on arbitrary non-meaningful traits.
Please share an argument on why this is not true, but I feel no shame that myself nor my ancestors are imperfect. I am just unwilling to repeat their errors and I should be ashamed if I do so to protect my personal ego.
Can anyone connect his response to what it is he is supposedly responding to, because I sure as hell can’t.
I have hung out with some pretty radical people from time to time. None of them has said the evil what man is responsible for *everything *that’s wrong.
On the other hand, white men have historically had a lot of power in places like the U.S., and I don’t see anything wrong with acknowledging that fact and trying to understand how that power was used, consciously and unconsciously, to make life harder for people who are not white or male. I don’t feel insulted by that area of inquiry, not on my own behalf, of for my father and grandfathers.
I am a well educated, middle-aged middle-class white man. I am cis, hetero and faithful to my wife of thirty years. I have raised two children who are now productive adults.
There are times when saying "fuck " is appropriate and justified.
Examining a piece of art through different perspectives is done all the time in literature, history, social sciences, etc. It’s one of the hallmarks of higher education. You don’t need to “embrace” the values of a particular paradigm. You only understand what those values are and how they apply to the material in question. You seem to be conflating understanding how a particular way of thought works with believing and supporting the opinions represented by its adherents.
To be fair, feminist literary criticism is not about the idea of equal rights. It’s about a related issue: the patriarchy (i.e., the traditional domination of society by some men and the structures and cultural norms that support that domination). It is possible to favor equality and to disagree with many specific examples of feminist interpretation of literature, in much the same way that one may like beauty but not like specific examples of aesthetic interpretations, or may like mental health but be driven up the motherfucking --excuse me, Oedipal complex–wall by psychoanalytic criticism.
I’ve heard of “where there’s smoke there’s fire.” Have you heard of “blowing smoke up your ass”?
I’ve heard of the broken clock being right twice a day; you realize that the same clock is wrong 86,398 times a day, right? The times this particular clock may be right is if her son asked, “Hey mom, do we have any Cheetos left?” and she said, “No, hon, I ate them all last night.” Or she may have been right when her computer asked her, “Would you like to restart now?” and she clicked the “no” button.
Nobody is saying that this person is wrong in every single thing she’s ever said; in fact, I think her rate of accuracy is probably far greater than 1 in 43,200 utterances. Sadly, few of her correct statements appear in this article.
“It”? Not clear what “It” refers to in either example in this question. I mean, often whether something is appropriate depends on how a person does it. And if a teacher ever demands that students adopt his point of view (for example, punishing a kid who kneels during the Pledge of Allegiance, or requiring a student to write a paper advocating abstinence before marriage, or demanding that a student not challenge his praise of Trump), that teacher is crossing a line.
But it’s absurd to argue that just because a particular school teaches students about, say, Wall Street, we need to be suspicious that they’re indoctrinating kids into Ayn Randian hypercapitalism.
Good job of embodying the very thing you criticize.
Sure.
But down deep, when it comes down to it, even though you were ASKING your students to look at both sides, wouldnt you agree that it was YOU and YOUR views that were leading the discussion?
I also had some pretty liberal teachers in college. I quickly learned to keep my mouth shut, nod, and agree with what they were pushing because they held the power of the gradebook. Why? I learned quickly that it was more important to get a good grade than it was to win an argument.
Curious, how do you know your students dont just say or write what you want them to write?
Another, would you pick a topic and counter argument in a situation where you know the liberal view would lose out?
First, methodology and ideology are two different things. A methodology does not necessarily have an attached ideology.
Second, you don’t need to agree with a methodology in order to apply it.
In fact, several of my lessons, in courses ranging from Spanish Grammar to Physical Chemistry, involved learning several methodologies, comparing them and seeing that one or more of them sucked. This explained why we would spend the rest of the course using the other methodologies, which did not suck. Onward, students!
A lot of the work I’ve done through my life (my undergrad thesis, the article in JACS, a lot of my design work) involves doing a task using several methods, then comparing them against each other and against a pre-defined set of measurable parameters, in order to choose which methodology to use going forward. I’m reasonably sure there is no such thing as a PM3 ideology, or a Newton-Raphson ideology, but those are the names of two methodologies I’ve used in those comparisons.
Oh, and having survived 10 years in the Company of Mary, followed by 4 in the Jesuits, followed by a Jesuit-founded university where several of my teachers were SJ, I’d be very happy to send my kids (if I’d had them) to a Social Justice factory. If I’d believed The Bestest Boyfriend would let me send the kids to the Jesuits I would have married him.
Soooo…teaching children to be open-minded is o.k. in theory, but…?
I stand with you against these fantasy, almost entirely non-existent people pushing “that the evil white man is to blame for everything”.
Those fictional people should go down and not be teachers. I stand with you.
One thing I have seen is that actual liberals are more interested in finding the best result (Benthamite greatest good for the greatest number) rather than in automatically opposing “conservative” ideas.
Well, fuck it then. Let’s pull all the children out of school so that they are not exposed to alternate viewpoints. If you really believe what you are putting forth, you will also have to tightly monitor who they associate with lest their friends have different political opinions, and the internet, television and radio are totally out for the same reason.
:smack: