# Would YOU write a letter of apology to a professor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503 "2017-02-22T20:02:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/201 "2017-03-06T23:45:42Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > I’ve been involved in teaching part-time for thirty years (post-secondary mathematics and engineering classes). I also know quite a few college teachers. IME, student complaints about “unfair” grading were overwhelmingly directed at teachers who graded “too hard”. Teachers who grade easily are rated higher. The ones who don’t go along to keep their (less frequently tenured) position get low ratings, and complaints. The result is a race to the bottom, which undermines standards. > > Also IME, such complaints are much less common at top-notch institutions (and in challenging majors at any institutions), because the students who are able to get admitted to those places and programs understand that getting an education requires hard work. Such institutions still maintain a “client” relationship between teacher and student. Schools which adopt a “customer” relationship (invariably to maximize enrollment, and revenue - _“the customer is always right!”_) can’t be as rigorous, and their reputations suffer for it. > > If you’re going to brag about forcing college professors to teach to the test, don’t complain about declining education quality, because you’re part of what causes it. What test are we talking about? This was a sex class and she was ranting on the election. Totally different subjects. Well then tell me, do you think its right for a professor to use her position as a bully pit to rant on about the election? Was it right for her to call it a terrorist act and to point out the students who voted for him? Can professors go out of line? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/202 "2017-03-07T01:27:33Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What test are we talking about? This was a sex class and she was ranting on the election. …and how the results of that election would affect sexuality and those whose sexuality made them feel threatened by the results of said election. > [@](#): > > Totally different subjects. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/203 "2017-03-07T02:56:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What test are we talking about? You tell me. You related how you’re proud of forcing professors to teach to the test. Who were the ones you “went after”? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/204 "2017-03-07T15:21:12Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What test are we talking about? This was a sex class and she was ranting on the election. Totally different subjects. > > Well then tell me, do you think its right for a professor to use her position as a bully pit to rant on about the election? Was it right for her to call it a terrorist act and to point out the students who voted for him? > > Can professors go out of line? No one in academia would ever say professors can’t go out of line. The point is this incident certainly doesn’t qualify as that. She shared an opinion which is completely appropriate in a social science class room to foster discussion or introspection on the subject matter. She did not “point out the students who voted for him.”. She had no access to the poll recors. The students volunteered the information on how they cast their ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/205 "2017-03-08T06:48:16Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No one in academia would ever say professors can’t go out of line. The point is this incident certainly doesn’t qualify as that. She shared an opinion which is completely appropriate in a social science class room to foster discussion or introspection on the subject matter. She did not “point out the students who voted for him.”. She had no access to the poll recors. The students volunteered the information on how they cast their ballots. How dare you let reality get in the way of a good two-minute hate! ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/206 "2017-03-08T18:04:17Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No one in academia would ever say professors can’t go out of line. The point is this incident certainly doesn’t qualify as that. She shared an opinion which is completely appropriate in a social science class room to foster discussion or introspection on the subject matter. She did not “point out the students who voted for him.”. She had no access to the poll recors. The students volunteered the information on how they cast their ballots. > [@](#): > > Cox asked students to stand up and “show the rest of the class who to watch out for and protect yourself from,” according to Tanner Webb of Huntington Beach, one of two students not affiliated with the College Republicans who stepped forward last month to say Cox asked Trump supporters to identify themselves. > > “I think Mrs. Cox is a good teacher when teaching the curriculum and I have enjoyed her class,” said Webb, who described himself as apolitical. Webb was in a different class than the one that was videotaped, but in his session, Cox “continually bashed on Trump supporters, belittling them and making it seem like every person who voted for Trump was an LGBT community hating white supremacist.” > > Cox denies it. > > “I never did that.” > > “What I said was, for those of you who are happy that your candidate won, celebrate. Stand up, cheer. Whatever. It was generic. It wasn’t stand up now. It wasn’t that at all. That didn’t happen.” > **[OCC instructor: No regrets calling Trump’s election ‘an act of terrorism’](https://www.ocregister.com/2017/01/16/occ-instructor-no-regrets-calling-trumps-election-an-act-of-terrorism/)** > > A community college teacher who attracted national attention for describing the election of Donald Trump as “an act of terrorism” said her comments were meant to comfort her students, n… So it is unknown whether or not or how she called out Trump supporters, linking them to her “terrorist” statement. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/207 "2017-03-09T22:03:39Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > [OCC instructor: No regrets calling Trump’s election ‘an act of terrorism’ – Orange County Register](http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cox-741196-college-students.html) > > So it is unknown whether or not or how she called out Trump supporters, linking them to her “terrorist” statement. So again, we are back to how do we prove it without taping? Which of course is not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/208 "2017-03-09T22:34:42Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So again, we are back to how do we prove it without taping? Which of course is not allowed. Probably the same way we would have proved it in the days before the prevalence of tape recorders: eye-witness testimony. Except we wouldn’t have bothered in previous generations when students were not coddled little snowflakes who shatter the instant they encounter an opinion that disagrees with them. Hell, I was called a sociopath, a product of a criminal culture, and a man-hater more than a few times by some of my professors. I still got A’s and often learned a lot of things from them. To be honest, if there aren’t a few times in your student career that an elderly faculty member describes you as a menace to society or a future terrorist, you’re not being exposed to enough ideas at the university. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/209 "2017-03-10T01:28:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > To be honest, if there aren’t a few times in your student career that an elderly faculty member describes you as a menace to society or a future terrorist, you’re not being exposed to enough ideas at the university. What a complete load of nonsense. Calling people names and political rants is unprofessional behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/210 "2017-03-10T02:32:26Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So again, we are back to how do we prove it without taping? Which of course is not allowed. We’re back again to ANSWERING THE SAME DAMN QUESTIONS YOU KEEP ASKING. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The charges about singling out and shaming . . . should be investigated using standard methods of interviewing students who were there. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/211 "2017-03-10T13:59:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What a complete load of nonsense. Calling people names and political rants is unprofessional behavior. A university isn’t an office. There is a different standard of professional behavior and ideally the goal of a professor is to educate their students to think, to examine and evaluate ideas. Rants can and are often part of the teaching process. Being called a future terrorist or a menace to society may actually be a compliment in some classrooms. It means you have made the old people think and your ideas are challenging and revolutionary to them. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/212 "2017-03-11T22:23:02Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And the Trump snowflake was a brat who opened his big fat mouth and BROKE the university rules and got slapped down for it. Boo Hoo. He should have gotten expelled and I personally hope he gets shunned (if not physically abused by other students) for making damn sure the no recordings policies are now going to be enforced with a vengeance by the faculty. Chances are if the politics were reversed (pro-Trump faculty being recorded by liberal student), you would be championing the professor. Would they be wearing their brown uniforms when they beat him up? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/213 "2017-03-11T22:25:37Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > A university isn’t an office. There is a different standard of professional behavior and ideally the goal of a professor is to educate their students to think, to examine and evaluate ideas. Rants can and are often part of the teaching process. Being called a future terrorist or a menace to society may actually be a compliment in some classrooms. It means you have made the old people think and your ideas are challenging and revolutionary to them. Old people think? No, this wasnt a debate where the student challenged a professor. The was a sex teacher, used to doing whatever she damn well pleases, going off on the election and calling it an act of terrorism. Just because you have a Phd and a captive audience of students doesnt give you the right to do whatever you damn well please. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/214 "2017-03-11T22:29:21Z")
So, just to be clear, your position is that there are some things that professors should be forbidden to discuss in the classroom? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/215 "2017-03-11T22:31:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > We’re back again to ANSWERING THE SAME DAMN QUESTIONS YOU KEEP ASKING. Yes I know that. But just how the heck could a dean look into something when half the students are going to say different things or else not say anything and you have a tenured professor who’s backed up by a powerful union? Cone on. How many times has a dean really disciplined a tenured professor? Frankly only the public shame from being caught was the only thing she was going to listen to. Again, if the teacher had only apologized for making her outrageous statements and making the students feel uncomfortable this whole thing would have ended but no, she had to go make herself a martyr. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/216 "2017-03-11T22:34:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > backed up by a powerful union When did you first decide to divorce yourself from the realty-based community? > [@](#): > > Again, if the teacher had only apologized for making her outrageous statements What was outrageous about them? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/217 "2017-03-12T01:39:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes I know that. But just how the heck could a dean look into something when half the students are going to say different things or else not say anything and you have a tenured professor who’s backed up by a powerful union? Cone on. How many times has a dean really disciplined a tenured professor? > > Frankly only the public shame from being caught was the only thing she was going to listen to. > > Again, if the teacher had only apologized for making her outrageous statements and making the students feel uncomfortable this whole thing would have ended but no, she had to go make herself a martyr. What you seem to miss is that she didn’t say anything wrong. She has every right to say that she considers those who support Trump to be terrorists. I can even actually make an argument for that myself. It’s not inherently a personal attack. And if you support Trump, you don’t support political correctness, which means you don’t get to complain that your feelings were hurt. Trump ran on hurting people’s feelings. You don’t get to cheer that on and then come back and whine when people hurt your feelings, too. You don’t get to be on the right wing, making fun of safe spaces, and then demand one for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/218 "2017-03-12T01:53:33Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > A university isn’t an office. There is a different standard of professional behavior and ideally the goal of a professor is to educate their students to think, to examine and evaluate ideas. Rants can and are often part of the teaching process. Being called a future terrorist or a menace to society may actually be a compliment in some classrooms. It means you have made the old people think and your ideas are challenging and revolutionary to them. There are, but what you describe is blatant racism, and that is not remotely acceptable. You are going way too far in saying professors can do what they want. They are still constrained by the same things normal people are. You still have to be a decent person. For example, if a professor said rape is okay, I would be 100% okay with them being fired. And, yeah, advocating violence against him is fucking horrible. If it can be done against him, then people who thought you were despicable could do it against you. That’s not okay. There are times when violence is necessary, but this is not remotely one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Sanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rick\_Sanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/219 "2017-03-12T01:54:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What you seem to miss is that she didn’t say anything wrong. She has every right to say that she considers those who support Trump to be terrorists. I can even actually make an argument for that myself. It’s not inherently a personal attack. That’s fine, so long as you don’t complain if another professor uses her podium to rant about how she considers Hillary supporters to be terrorists. > [@](#): > > And if you support Trump, you don’t support political correctness, which means you don’t get to complain that your feelings were hurt. Believe me, opposition to political correctness isn’t restricted to Trump fans. > [@](#): > > You don’t get to be on the right wing, making fun of safe spaces, and then demand one for yourself. By the same token, you don’t get to be an SJW, explicitly equating speech with violence, and then turn round and deny safe spaces to Trump voters demonised as terrorists by the faculty. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/220 "2017-03-12T01:56:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > A university isn’t an office. A university is no more immune from professional behavior than any other institution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503.md?page=12)