# Would YOU write a letter of apology to a professor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 22, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503 "2017-02-22T20:02:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/21 "2017-02-22T21:41:39Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > ‘Hero’ of the right - the professor was engaged in an anti-Trump rant. Now having established that you had the politics of the situation exactly backwards, does that change your position ;)? It gets worse. The professor is a _woman_ and a Cuban _immigrant_. Damn thee, brief edit window! ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/22 "2017-02-22T22:14:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > For those who don’t remember, [this is **Urbanredneck** ’s second thread about the incident](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813329); and the rights of the student to record the professor were pretty well debated in the original thread. Your right. I should go back and say the professor won this one BIG TIME. Not a damn thing happened to her but the student was kicked out. Her fellow professors backed her up so you know they are as bad as she is. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/23 "2017-02-22T22:16:27Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It’s quite simple. If he wishes to remain in the professor’s class or in the school he should apologize. If he doesn’t and chooses instead to have a 5-minute fame as a ‘hero’ of the left he shouldn’t. > > Nothing complicated about this. Oh sure, his lawyers can fight it but why would he even want to remain in the professor’s class if he sees him as an enemy of all that is just, virtuous and righteous? > > Oh, and I wouldn’t record him in the first place, but then I’m not a sneak. Thing is the professor was ranting and raving, not only against Trump, but the people who voted for him and she was singling them out in class. The student felt threatened and started recording. Since she was off topic I think he had every right to do this and the professor should apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/24 "2017-02-22T22:21:56Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If the classroom rules are clearly stated no recordings, yeah this little Trumpy snowflake should suck it up and either live with the suspension or write the letter. Instructors occasionally go off topic. (Decades ago I had a calculus professor that could wax eloquently on the foribles of his cats.) Unless they are doing it all time and using up significant amounts of teaching time, it’s no big deal. On the job, some supervisors can ramble on for hours and there is nothing like an all staff meeting for wasted conversation. If the student snowflake tried such behavior in most offices he would have been fired. Yes, according to the syllabus he should not have recorded her. BUT, she was saying something totally off topic and something way more than talking about cats. She even attacked students. So she was not following the syllabus either so I think he had every right to record. And again, its the professor who should apologize. She had the big fancy Phd. She was supposed to be the adult in the room. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/25 "2017-02-22T22:43:08Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > the foribles of his cats foribles: furballs’ foibles? ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/26 "2017-02-22T22:49:01Z")
This student has no chance in California where abuse is condoned by the liberal unions. They couldn’t even fire this guy. I’m sure someone here probably would condemn any student that would record this behavior. “Miramonte teacher Mark Berndt fed blindfolded students semen cookies…” > **[Teacher admits feeding students cookies laced with his semen](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507718/Miramonte-teacher-Mark-Berndt-fed-blindfolded-students-semen-cookies.html)** > > Mark Berndt, 62, a former teacher at Miramonte Elementary School in south Los Angeles, has pleaded no contest to all charges after feeding pupils his semen. So he should write the letter of apology before they make him do something worse. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/27 "2017-02-22T22:50:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah but sociology or psychology generally works. Don’t need to delve into the morass of ridiculous fields that will get you employed, if lucky, at Starbucks. How dare any self-respecting engineer become well-rounded by studying dance, or theater, or _grimaces_ Shakespeare? Better to just take a bird course that doesn’t challenge you in any way or open your mind. How I got an A in Shakespeare, I’ll never know. I firmly place the blame for that on my partners through the semester. ---
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/28 "2017-02-22T22:55:38Z")
They are all adults. That is one of the great things about teaching at this level (as I do). You can treat your students as the adults they are. For me this means, among other things, that I don’t preface difficult topics with trigger warnings. It also means that the classroom is a space for the free exchange of ideas. I have no idea what led up to this professor’s comments. Was she answering a question? Was it part of a larger discussion? I watched the brief clip, and she sounds perfectly calm (rather than “ranting”). Nothing in her remarks sounds even vaguely threatening. She is certainly expressing a political point of view. Was this appropriate for her class? I have no idea, since I only saw this snippet without any context. I can’t agree with the idea that college professors should never express political opinions in the classroom. OTOH, I think it can be a delicate balance. Personally, I tend to avoid overt political statements in my classes unless a student directly asks for my opinion. I often do the “some people think X, other people think Y” sort of statement. The professor is in a position of authority, and students may feel that they must agree with the professor at all times. Of course, I don’t have any expectation or desire for students to agree with me (except in my language classes, when there generally is a single right answer). But the inherent power imbalance means that students may not understand that their opinions are entirely welcome in my classroom. Whether I agree with them is completely irrelevant. One thing I am absolutely sure of: this student was wrong to record his professor. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/29 "2017-02-22T23:02:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yes, according to the syllabus he should not have recorded her. > > BUT, she was saying something totally off topic and something way more than talking about cats. She even attacked students. So she was not following the syllabus either so I think he had every right to record. > > And again, its the professor who should apologize. She had the big fancy Phd. She was supposed to be the adult in the room. College isn’t high school. Instructors don’t always follow the syllabus (nor or they required to follow it in precise, excruciating details like a some schools require teachers to follow lesson plans). The nature of a lecture based class means the occasional off-topic wanderings even rants will occur. As long as it doesn’t occur every class, it simply another aspects of the way higher education teaches. Oh, and everybody in the room was supposed to be an adult, student and teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/30 "2017-02-22T23:06:05Z")
The real issue is, was the college administration cracking down on: 1. Filming of professors in class in general; or 1. Filming of professors for this particular political slant? If the college’s policy is, “We don’t allow filming of professors at all, period,” then I can agree with that. But if it’s policy is, “We don’t allow this particular filming because the professor is left-wing and this video could serve a right-wing agenda,” then that’s partisan. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/31 "2017-02-22T23:06:26Z")
[quote=“Urbanredneck, post:1, topic:780503”] A couple of months ago an Orange County college student secretly recorded his teacher ranting on Trump. This was posted on social media. [LINK](http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/02/17/punching-back-student-suspended-filming-professors-anti-trump-rant-threatens-lawsuit/) I just looked at the link. If the student snowflake thinks that is a threatening rant, he’ll never be able to hold down a job outside of alt-right or Breitbart. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/32 "2017-02-22T23:07:31Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > How dare any self-respecting engineer become well-rounded by studying dance, or theater, or _grimaces_ Shakespeare? Better to just take a bird course that doesn’t challenge you in any way or open your mind. > > How I got an A in Shakespeare, I’ll never know. I firmly place the blame for that on my partners through the semester. You’re doing a good job crushing that strawman. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/33 "2017-02-22T23:17:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The real issue is, was the college administration cracking down on: > > 1. Filming of professors in class in general; > > or > > 1. Filming of professors for this particular political slant? > If the college’s policy is, “We don’t allow filming of professors at all, period,” then I can agree with that. But if it’s policy is, “We don’t allow this particular filming because the professor is left-wing and this video could serve a right-wing agenda,” then that’s partisan. Its a junior college. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/34 "2017-02-22T23:28:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The real issue is, was the college administration cracking down on: > > 1. Filming of professors in class in general; > > or > > 1. Filming of professors for this particular political slant? > If the college’s policy is, “We don’t allow filming of professors at all, period,” then I can agree with that. But if it’s policy is, “We don’t allow this particular filming because the professor is left-wing and this video could serve a right-wing agenda,” then that’s partisan. Some professors allow recording, and some do not. It is their classroom, and their rules. The college does not care which rules you have to follow, only that you do. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/35 "2017-02-22T23:55:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Based on a previous discussion, I believe it’s a state law in California. This is what I think it the relevant law: [California Penal Code 632](http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-632.html) which is the state’s two party consent law: > [@](#): > > Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment. But since this isn’t a confidential communication as defined this doesn’t really apply. [Evens v. Superior Court](http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/77/320.html) addressed this in an education setting saying in part: > [@](#): > > The videotape recording at [77 Cal. App. 4th 324] issue here was made in a public classroom, and is clearly not the type of “confidential communication” contemplated by section 632. This is a state district court opinion so not necessarily binding on the entire state. That means we’re left with Ed Code. [CA Ed Code 78907:](http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/education-code/edc-sect-78907.html) > [@](#): > > The use by any person, including a student, of any electronic listening or recording device in any classroom without the prior consent of the instructor is prohibited, except as necessary to provide reasonable auxiliary aids and academic adjustments to disabled students.  Any person, other than a student, who willfully violates this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. > > Any student violating this section shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action. > > This section shall not be construed as affecting the powers, rights, and liabilities arising from the use of electronic listening or recording devices as provided for by any other provision of law. But when we look at this, a student who engages in this type of recording is not guilty of a misdemeanor. They do appear to be subject to appropriate disciplinary action, whatever that may be. If the action can be shown to be violative of other areas of law like content based speech restrictions, or due process or equal protection items, then the student could be on firmer ground. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/36 "2017-02-23T02:26:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > How does one apologize for three pages? With a lot of "very"s? > [@madsircool](#): > > Its a junior college. 😛 I would write the letter if I wished to stay enrolled in that college … **Vinyl Turnip’s** comment made me giggle … this is college, if someone can’t write a three page apology letter, maybe they don’t belong in college … I had to write one of these in high school … ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/37 "2017-02-23T02:31:17Z")
Yea, I probably would. I would weigh all the options, but I’d put my pride/righteousness aside to better myself, overall. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/38 "2017-02-23T03:35:49Z")
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no, I wouldn’t. College professors seem all-to-often to be under the misapprehension that they are in control of their classrooms. This should be corrected at every opportunity. > [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > In college, learning what the professor teaches is what you are graded on. This professor thinks a 3 page apology is something that the student can learn from. > > Do it or don’t. > Pass or Fail: its the student’s call. > > I only have 2-3 questions **and they are not for the OP** , but for the Student: I’ll take your bait. > [@](#): > > 1. Who is PAYING for your courses, Sonny Boy? I am. That means you work for me. I hire you to dance, you dance. That’s the rule. I am the customer, you are my servant. So serve me the information I paid for, and quit wasting my time, old (wo)man. > [@](#): > > 1. If You Fail Out … on _their dime_, what are you going to do with your life? McDonalds or Burger King? Go to a different university, where they respect their clientele. There are about two dozen universities salivating to receive my tuition check. Do not overplay your hand. > [@](#): > > Lets Assume for the sake of argument that Snark is not a subject offered at other Universities > > 1. What other college/university would Have you…? How about…any of them? All of them? The real question is which is willing to suck my dick longer and harder to get my money. Again, I am hiring you to perform a service. Act like it. > [@chaika](#): > > They are all adults. That is one of the great things about teaching at this level (as I do). You can treat your students as the adults they are. Indeed they are. So act like it. Adults coldly refuse to acknowledge each other in the hallway. Adults pretend like nothing ever happened until the group project is over and they can separate. Adults don’t write adults apology letters. More importantly, adults remember who is paying whom. > [@](#): > > I can’t agree with the idea that college professors should never express political opinions in the classroom. I can, for the same reason my waiter shouldn’t ever express political opinions when I’m at dinner. > [@](#): > > The professor is in a position of authority Oh, that is hysterical. And cute. Only in the sense that a librarian is in a position of authority at the library, or a singer on a stage at a concert. > [@](#): > > Of course, I don’t have any expectation or desire for students to agree with me That’s because you’re good people. Normal. Sane. Rational. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/39 "2017-02-23T03:38:01Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I am. That means you work for me. I hire you to dance, you dance. That’s the rule. I am the customer, you are my servant. So serve me the information I paid for, and quit wasting my time, old (wo)man. …this is a joke, right? I apologize if I’m not catching the subtle satire here; please take pity on us old folk who can’t even tell when you’re making fun of student attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503/40 "2017-02-23T03:46:11Z")
I’m a high school teacher, and I accept the sad reality that anything I say or do could be recorded and that I could easily end up on YouTube or as a laughingstock on some comedy vine. I have no realistic expectation of privacy and neither does any professor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-you-write-a-letter-of-apology-to-a-professor/780503.md?page=3)