# Wouldn't Soccer And Ice Hockey Be More Exciting Spectator Sports Without The Goalie? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 31, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969 "2012-07-31T16:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/41 "2012-08-02T19:14:55Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Yes, they’re trying to set up or defend attacks. For example, they may be passing the ball around to try and draw opposing players out of position, creating space for their own players to attack. Or one of any number of other tactics. > > The point is that to fans of the game, this is all part of the excitement. Of course, tedious soccer games happen - I guess this is probably true of most sports - but the goals themselves are interesting _because_ they don’t happen every 3 minutes. > > It makes a lot more sense if you actually understand what they’re trying to do as they “dither around” in midfield. Not that I’m saying you should rush out now and learn everything there is to know about the game - there are plenty of other sports to enjoy. But that, and not blind resistance to change, is the reason why soccer fans would reject your idea. The problem with this argument is that each team controls the ball for, on average, around 10 seconds or so before the other team gets the ball and tries their dithering around. To me, this prevents a feeling of strategic play and suspense as the strategy unfolds to see whether it would be successful or not. It breaks down too quickly. I think basketball suffers the same problem from the fan perspective (I enjoy playing both sports), each scoring sequence happens too quickly, and so that feeling of suspense about an unknown outcome never really gets a chance to build. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/42 "2012-08-02T19:35:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Never claimed to be an expert, Nava. It’s a stupid suggestion that someone who doesn’t know dick about soccer brings up about once a month though. Just because it’s not exciting to you, doesn’t mean it’s not exciting. People who love the sport and actually watch and understand it find it to be fine just the way it is, no asinine adjustments necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/43 "2012-08-02T19:51:03Z")
Hey, at least asking about no goalie is a break from the question we get asked once a month about why hockey teams don’t hire fat goalies. Nobody ever asks this question about soccer. Can’t anybody imagine a 24-foot-wide goalie? Dare to dream, people. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/44 "2012-08-02T19:56:11Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > It’s a stupid suggestion that someone who doesn’t know dick about soccer brings up about once a month though. Just because it’s not exciting to you, doesn’t mean it’s not exciting. People who love the sport and actually watch and understand it find it to be fine just the way it is, no asinine adjustments necessary. Things change. Games can and will as well. We should always be thinking about how to make games better. Soccer is pretty fine. It could be better. ---
**Author:** ![ed1967](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c37758/32.png) [@ed1967](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed1967)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/45 "2012-08-02T19:59:35Z")
I wouldn’t call it a stupid suggestion (as previous respondent) but possibly misguided. From the point of view of a goalkeeper (I play as a goalkeeper (football, not ice hockey) and only with friends), we are what makes the sport what it is. I assume the same goes for ice hockey goalies too. I assume the original correspondent is American, and as such, if you get the chance to visit the UK, I’d like to have the opportunity to change your mind, come and have a game with us and try your hand in goal. Seriously. And if I ever go the US, I promise to go to a baseball game too, even though I don’t understand it!!😉 ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/46 "2012-08-02T22:38:52Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I imagine that both teams would end up having to flood the zone the ball is in and you’d end up with an adult version of 8 year olds running around in a mob. Unless there’s a rule I don’t know about, I’d expect teams to put at least two defenders all the way back at the goal to block almost anything from outside the box. In effect, you’d have goalies, just without the use of their arms. Think pickup soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/47 "2012-08-02T22:53:28Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > Unless there’s a rule I don’t know about, I’d expect teams to put at least two defenders all the way back at the goal to block almost anything from outside the box. > > In effect, you’d have goalies, just without the use of their arms. Think pickup soccer. The OP said that’d be illegal under the rule change. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/48 "2012-08-02T22:57:41Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The OP said that’d be illegal under the rule change. So he did. So they would stand immediately outside the box. And we’ll change it to at least three of them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/49 "2012-08-02T23:04:52Z")
Soccer would be pretty exciting if, instead of kicking the ball around, they threw it and ran with it. And maybe we could elongate it a little, make it more of a (just off the top of my head) kind of prolate spheroid. Yeah, that’s the ticket! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/50 "2012-08-03T03:44:55Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The OP said that’d be illegal under the rule change. I just said you would not be allowed to have people inside the box in front of the goal unless there were attackers in the area, not bothering to define what “in the area” means. That was to prevent players from functioning as goalies without being called such. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/51 "2012-08-03T03:46:08Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > It’s a stupid suggestion that someone who doesn’t know dick about soccer brings up about once a month though. Just because it’s not exciting to you, doesn’t mean it’s not exciting. People who love the sport and actually watch and understand it find it to be fine just the way it is, no asinine adjustments necessary. My goodness, we did wake up grumpy today, didn’t we? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/52 "2012-08-04T17:34:16Z")
Well it seems that you woke up unoriginal, so I guess if that makes me grumpy, then yeah. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/53 "2012-08-04T20:15:51Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > The problem with this argument is that each team controls the ball for, on average, around 10 seconds or so before the other team gets the ball and tries their dithering around. > > To me, this prevents a feeling of strategic play and suspense as the strategy unfolds to see whether it would be successful or not. It breaks down too quickly. > > I think basketball suffers the same problem from the fan perspective (I enjoy playing both sports), each scoring sequence happens too quickly, and so that feeling of suspense about an unknown outcome never really gets a chance to build. Soccer fans, I’m curious about your response to these points. Do you see any validity? I was analyzing the various sports that I’ve watched that I didn’t play that often growing up and I don’t feel this way about all of them, and one of them (basketball) that I did play a lot, I feel the same way as I do about soccer. This leads me to believe it’s not just a matter of what I grew up with. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/54 "2012-08-05T00:07:35Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Soccer fans, I’m curious about your response to these points. Do you see any validity? > > I was analyzing the various sports that I’ve watched that I didn’t play that often growing up and I don’t feel this way about all of them, and one of them (basketball) that I did play a lot, I feel the same way as I do about soccer. > > This leads me to believe it’s not just a matter of what I grew up with. > > Thoughts? Is that 10 seconds an actual statistic or just your estimate? Because it seems low to me, particularly for the quality European club and national sides. If you’re only keeping possession for 10 seconds, your passing sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/55 "2012-08-05T00:33:57Z")
If teams don’t hire fat goalies, then how do you explain Martin Broudeur? > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > This is the sort of thing I was thinking of. I had not considered icing, it would definitely fuck things up. I watch a lot of hockey when I play bar trivia, it’s a good spectator sport in the sense that it’s got a weird combination of being brutal, graceful and fast that works nicely. I just see those goalies with those enormous pads in front of those tiny nets and wonder how anybody scores at all. Often, they do not. Stupidest idea ever. Those nets aren’t as small as they look. I like the fact that hockey isn’t as high scoring. It means a goal counts for more. It’s more challenging, and it gives you an excuse to jump up and down and scream “YES!!! GOAL!!!” (Trust me, I do that all the time) You also have the opportunity of a shut-out, which doesn’t happen in pro-basketball. [Here](http://www.askmen.com/sports/fanatic_300/387_watch-hockey.html): > [@](#): > > In basketball, scoring is common. In hockey, there are about five goals per game. You could say there isn’t enough action. But, in hockey, a play can matter exponentially more because one brilliant move can lead to 20% of the game’s scoring. This gives you several legitimate excuses to run around the house yelling, “Goooaaalll!” Or, if you’re the player, you’re (somewhat) allowed to have ridiculous celebrations. There’s also a picture of the net, to illustrate just how big it actually is. (Dammit, I can’t wait for hockey season to start. Hell, I can’t wait for the preseason. :() ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/56 "2012-08-05T01:26:57Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Soccer fans, I’m curious about your response to these points. Do you see any validity? No. To be honest, I don’t understand how anyone could watch even a single moderately-competitive match and see any validity. I’m not even sure what else to say about it. The pitch is 350 feet long, for one thing. If your keeper was the fastest person in the world and he picked the ball up and ran at a dead sprint to the opposite goal line, it would take him more than 10 seconds to score a goal. What kind of morons would these guys have to be to not be able to retain possession for at least that long on a field that size while they were just “dithering around”? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/57 "2012-08-05T01:42:42Z")
I’m watching an MLS game right now. I haven’t been keeping track religiously, but I’d say the average possession lasts around 15 seconds. MLS games tend to be a bit more direct, and therefore have shorter possessions, than say the Mexican league, but I wouldn’t say 10 second possessions is a ridiculous exaggeration. It’s certainly shorter than a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/58 "2012-08-05T01:54:18Z")
Yeah, get back to me when whatever pissant sport you support has even a fraction of the global support as soccer enjoys. Sorry for the offensive tone, but soccer doesn’t need the approval of the likes of the OP. It’s doing just fine, thanks for asking. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/59 "2012-08-05T02:29:38Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I’m watching an MLS game right now. I haven’t been keeping track religiously, but I’d say the average possession lasts around 15 seconds. MLS games tend to be a bit more direct, and therefore have shorter possessions, than say the Mexican league, but I wouldn’t say 10 second possessions is a ridiculous exaggeration. It’s certainly shorter than a minute. I don’t think jumping from ten seconds to certainly less than a minute is a trivial leap, but ridiculous or not, it’s certainly flawed. It is not a problem that soccer has, compared to other sports, that normal gameplay does not result in a buildup of attack because teams don’t possess the ball for long enough. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969/60 "2012-08-05T02:34:42Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > I’m afraid I don’t understand what you’re getting at. The U.S. has created a sport, that while superficially similiar, is different (and better IMNSHO) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-soccer-and-ice-hockey-be-more-exciting-spectator-sports-without-the-goalie/629969.md?page=4)