# Wouldn't you prefer to travel the Oregon Trail light instead of w/ wagons & oxen? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595 "2013-04-24T15:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/21 "2013-04-24T18:30:57Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If you have to stop to hunt and gather food it’s going to take even longer. You’d also probably _die_. Humans don’t do well when introduced into a completely new environment, and there were very few people who knew how to survive on the open plain or the Rockies, much less gather so much extra that they could support a group. In another point, it was _not_ easy to go around, either. You could hypothetically cross Panama or take a ship via Tierra del Fuego. In either case, you could be looking at an equally long journey with a potentially lower survival rate. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/22 "2013-04-24T18:50:02Z")
As stated upthread, there were several groups of Mormon handcart pioneers that you can read up on here: [Mormon handcart pioneers - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_handcart_pioneers) They made great time when things went right, but had terrible attrition rates when they were hit with bad weather, poor equipment, and poor planning. Also, as has already been stated, they only had to make it to Utah. I don’t know if they would have had the stamina to go another 700 miles to the west coast. As a Mormon teenager, I was forced to dress up in old-timey clothes and drag a handcart around for a week and sleep in the open in the woods, and I can say unequivocally, from personal experience, that travel by handcart fucking sucks. Give me an ox and dysentery. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/23 "2013-04-24T19:07:12Z")
Everyone’s comments keep reminding me of more things. Unfortunately, I don’t have cites. So consider these to be speculations. > [@Chefguy](#): > > In addition to the above, people were often led to believe (by people that had no idea of reality) that the trail was a piece of cake. . . . I’m trying to remember where I read it. It might have been National Geographic, but I can’t swear to it. (Mind like a steel sieve.) But the Donner Party were following the instructions of a pamphlet they bought. The man who wrote and promoted the pamphlet had never actually travelled the trail that he was promoting. After his name got associated with the Donner Party, he moved to South America, where he died trying to promote a similar pamphlet, there. > [@GreasyJack](#): > > . . . The death rate mostly reflects the death of individual party members, mostly from disease and more commonly children and the elderly, not Donner-party style disasters where the most of a group perished. This is another I Heard or Read It Somewhere. This was comparing death by Indian attacks to death by disease. Apparently a lot of wagon trains camped outside of St. Louis MO buying final supplies before heading west. The fields they camped in had no proper sanitation, so pioneers were more likely to die of dysentery, picked up in that campground, than they were to die of attack on the trail. No clue where that would put them vs. everyone else at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/24 "2013-04-24T19:22:08Z")
You’re thinking of Lansford Hastings: [Lansford Hastings - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lansford_Hastings) According to the wiki article, he didn’t actually promote the “shortcut” but did mention it in his pamphlet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/25 "2013-04-24T19:33:47Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > This is another I Heard or Read It Somewhere. This was comparing death by Indian attacks to death by disease. Apparently a lot of wagon trains camped outside of St. Louis MO buying final supplies before heading west. The fields they camped in had no proper sanitation, so pioneers were more likely to die of dysentery, picked up in that campground, than they were to die of attack on the trail. Oddly enough, [Cracked.com](http://Cracked.com) just did a [“Top 5 Myths about the Wild West”](http://www.cracked.com/article_20372_5-ridiculous-myths-everyone-believes-about-wild-west.html) article. The first one on the list is “Indians attacking wagon trains.” According to Cracked (and if you can think of a more unimpeachable cite than [Cracked.com](http://Cracked.com), I’d like to see it!) the total number of confirmed deaths from Indian v. Settler\* conflicts is less than a thousand people during the entire period of Western expansion. And that includes dead settlers and dead Indians. So, really, pioneers were more likely to die of almost anything other than Indian attacks. \*Indian v. US Military, on the other hand, had a significantly higher body count. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/26 "2013-04-24T20:01:41Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Horses can die from a stomach ache or from a stone in their hooves that maybe you don’t notice for a couple hours leading to laminitis (cows can get laminitis too, but it’s more deadly in horses because of the way their blood circulation works). Plus, a horse’s instinct when it’s frightened is to freak out and run away. OTOH, It takes a lot to freak out an ox. I absolutely agree that horses are more delicate than oxen, but stone bruising doesn’t cause acute (sudden onset) laminitis. It can be a sign/complication of chronic laminitis, but acute laminitis risk factors are mostly related to obesity and rich diet. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/27 "2013-04-24T20:37:21Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > You’d also probably _die_. Humans don’t do well when introduced into a completely new environment, and there were very few people who knew how to survive on the open plain or the Rockies, much less gather so much extra that they could support a group. > > In another point, it was _not_ easy to go around, either. You could hypothetically cross Panama or take a ship via Tierra del Fuego. In either case, you could be looking at an equally long journey with a potentially lower survival rate. Yeah crossing Panama could get you eaten alive by army ants and taking a ship could lead to death by scurvy. Or at least that what that old Gold Rush game taught me. I took the wagon train every freaking time. Much safer. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/28 "2013-04-24T20:58:16Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Best bet IMHO would be to get 4 or 5 families together, leave the household goods and the old and very young folks behind, at least initially, hook up a gobload of oxen per wagon and move out. At about the halfway mark you send a group of dudes on horseback with shovels & axes to scout out and prepare a landing zone of dugout houses & corrals on one of the homesteads. Develop that homestead first and then once settled, maybe the following year, develop the others. Bascially, exploit economy of scale to some extent to improve the odds of survival for that first year or two and then let everyone get all independant. Sending out 10 or so families in a train, all with the intent of setting up 10 independant farms simultaneously, strikes me as crazy bad planning. And how would the children and old folks survive while the main family breadwinners were gone for a year or more? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/29 "2013-04-24T21:01:40Z")
Whichever way that makes it less likely for me to die of dysentery ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/30 "2013-04-24T21:23:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, really, pioneers were more likely to die of almost anything other than Indian attacks. True 'nuff. But Indians _did_ steal horses and run off livestock, when they saw the opportunity. From their perspective, it wasn’t even stealing, it was taking–you bring your horses onto their land, they take 'em and say thanks (or not). Which is another reason why not many people traveled in small horse parties. You had to watch the horses all night. When you’re riding all day, and taking a large share of the night watches, you get mighty tired. And if you fall asleep and the Indians untie and run off your horses, you’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/31 "2013-04-25T00:33:03Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Best bet IMHO would be to get 4 or 5 families together, leave the household goods and the old and very young folks behind, at least initially, hook up a gobload of oxen per wagon and move out. At about the halfway mark you send a group of dudes on horseback with shovels & axes to scout out and prepare a landing zone of dugout houses & corrals on one of the homesteads. Develop that homestead first and then once settled, maybe the following year, develop the others. Bascially, exploit economy of scale to some extent to improve the odds of survival for that first year or two and then let everyone get all independant. Sending out 10 or so families in a train, all with the intent of setting up 10 independant farms simultaneously, strikes me as crazy bad planning. That’s actually how some of the later immigrant groups settled in the high plains in the early 20th century, but that only worked because that land was pretty crummy and they could take their sweet time. But in Oregon, the government was giving away some of the best agricultural land in the world. There’s a lot of land in Oregon, but the best stuff went fast and in order to make a legally-recognized claim under the Homestead Act you had to settle, make improvements and stay on the land for five years. They had to get out and get settled as soon as possible, even if it meant taking some risks. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/32 "2013-04-25T01:34:22Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > I absolutely agree that horses are more delicate than oxen, but stone bruising doesn’t cause acute (sudden onset) laminitis. It can be a sign/complication of chronic laminitis, but acute laminitis risk factors are mostly related to obesity and rich diet. Right … I wasn’t thinking of direct stone bruising exactly, but the way a lame hoof can cause a horse not to distribute its weight evenly on its feet, which in turn causes poor blood circulation, which can lead to anoxia and laminitis. I wasn’t very clear in what I wrote but I was thinking about something as simple as not standing and moving squarely can lead to a life threatening situation. Horses’ legs are beautiful to look at but they don’t work all that well. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/33 "2013-04-25T02:03:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **drastic\_quench** : > > Yeah, I get that the farmer needs his oxen and implements, but hunters/trappers, doctors, barbers, guides, missionaries, and tradesmen traveled the Oregon Trail too. That’s what I mean by skills. Not everyone was a sodbuster, but it seems the vast majority chose to travel like sodbusters. Those guys don’t all need the _same_ tools, but they all need tools of some sort or another. The barber needs a supply of soap, blades, and the tools for resharpening blades, and probably a mirror or two. The missionary needs his books and other teaching supplies. The tradesmen all have tools of their trades. The trappers and guides might be able to travel light, but their part in the process was already done by the time the wagon trains were heading out. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/34 "2013-04-25T02:15:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Those guys don’t all need the _same_ tools, but they all need tools of some sort or another. The barber needs a supply of soap, blades, and the tools for resharpening blades, and probably a mirror or two. The missionary needs his books and other teaching supplies. The tradesmen all have tools of their trades. The trappers and guides might be able to travel light, but their part in the process was already done by the time the wagon trains were heading out. Those things can all fit on a horse or two. It’s not like the barber is taking his chair. Digging into the OT a bit more, it looks like there were instances where the guides advised wagon trains to ditch the wagons and proceed on horseback. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/35 "2013-04-25T02:36:44Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > But in Oregon, the government was giving away some of the best agricultural land in the world. There’s a lot of land in Oregon, but the best stuff went fast and in order to make a legally-recognized claim under the Homestead Act you had to settle, make improvements and stay on the land for five years. They had to get out and get settled as soon as possible, even if it meant taking some risks. When Oregon Trail migration began in earnest, in 1842, the land situation was even more unsettled than that. Oregon was under joint occupancy with Great Britain (which in practice meant the Hudson’s Bay Company). Any American or Canadian could settle there, but there was nobody to grant land titles. Everyone _thought_ the territory would eventually become American, but no one knew when, nor how the US government would settle land claims of squatters who were already there. The settlers organized their own government and granted free land to themselves, so it was very much get there fustest with the mostest. The US gained sovereignty in 1846 and passed the [Donation Land Claims Act](http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft5z09p09z&chunk.id=d0e2484&toc.depth=100&brand=ucpress) in 1850. The Act did indeed recognize the earlier claims–up to 640 acres–and allowed further free land grants to future settlers, but only up to 320 acres. So those who got there first did best. Furthermore the DLCA expired in 1855 so again it was get there fast. The later, more famous Homestead Act wasn’t passed until 1862, and applied to the entire West. By that time Trail migration was in decline, first because of the Civil War and later because of the railroads. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/36 "2013-04-25T04:40:42Z")
Did anyone ever come back from Oregon on the trail, to visit grandma or because they decided they liked that factory job out east better than farming? What percentage of Oregon residents today had ancestors that came over the trail? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/37 "2013-04-25T08:05:44Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I’m coming at this from the perspective of an ultralite hiker. Less load/smart load = less stress and faster travel. Which is a problem when you’re trying to analyze the reasons why most of the people traveling on the trail decided against going light. And, yes, I say decided against because these people weren’t stupid. Their method of travel was deliberately chosen based on the available resources and their specific needs. > [@](#): > > If you travel on horseback with a small string of horses or ponies, you’re faster, and you don’t have to take nearly as much food, and you can distribute the loads amongst your string. This would have been cheaper than a prairie schooner and yolks of oxen. I’m not an experienced equestrian but I imagine attempting to ride 2,000 miles takes a large physical toll on an individual. I doubt every member of my family would be capable of riding that far. And if they are capable what happens if one gets sick and is unable to handle a horse? At least with a wagon the sick family member can lie down while another drives. Leaving my family behind isn’t an option as we’re an economic unit. They need my labor to survive back east, and, quite frankly, I need their labor to get the homestead up and running. I can’t do it alone. > [@](#): > > Skills weigh nothing, and you can trade the horses that survive. Yes, I know some did just that, but it seems to me the vast majority chose the slowest, most dangerous, pain-in-the-ass way. What skills do I have to trade that my other homesteaders do not also possess? Are you sure you could get a good price for any of the horses that survived? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/38 "2013-04-25T08:34:32Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > Did anyone ever come back from Oregon on the trail, to visit grandma or because they decided they liked that factory job out east better than farming? > > What percentage of Oregon residents today had ancestors that came over the trail? There was a movie about that, [_Wagons East_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111653/) (1994). It was a comedy about a bunch of settlers in the old west who decided the frontier sucked and they wanted to go back to civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/39 "2013-04-25T09:40:26Z")
Seems completely understandable to me. The pioneers who headed off on the Oregon Trail were on a one way trip hoping to find find land, a home, and a future. They didn’t know where they were going or how long it would take or what they would find at the end. The wagons were their homes containing everything including their hopes and dreams. Single men with frontier skills could travel lightly and expect to survive but land is settled by families, not by Daniel Boone et al. So they travelled heavily which also meant safety and security in numbers. Sole fast travelling explorers are pathfinders - not farmers. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2013, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595/40 "2013-04-25T09:41:50Z")
As for taming bison, that’s a non starter. Some animals simply don’t take to domestication which is why placid oxen are still used the world over. Similarly the powerful African water buffalo looks like a good bet on the farm but is a contrary beast: in fact it’s down right dangerous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wouldnt-you-prefer-to-travel-the-oregon-trail-light-instead-of-w-wagons-oxen/656595.md?page=3)