# Wow, Harlan Ellison really needs to grow up **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 29, 2007, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947 "2007-03-29T05:58:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/21 "2007-03-31T14:06:31Z")
Can someone summarize what the lawsuit is about? I went to the article and got about a third of the way through it before I was bored out of my mind and still hadn’t been told even the slightest detail about what the basis of the suit was… ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/22 "2007-03-31T14:12:47Z")
He’s claiming that a book published by the defendents (about the history of thier company) had several anecdotes about Harlan that were libel. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/23 "2007-03-31T14:23:08Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] Can someone summarize what the lawsuit is about? I went to the article and got about a third of the way through it before I was bored out of my mind and still hadn’t been told even the slightest detail about what the basis of the suit was… [/QUOTE] Defamation of character. Apparently Ellison claims (perhaps with some merit) that Fantagraphics has a history of defaming him - between the publication last decade of _The Book on the Edge of Forever_ by Christopher Priest (not the comics writer, the SF writer - a book which illustrates the two-decades-ago-promised publication by Ellison of the anthology _The Last Dangerous Visions_, and how he still holds publication rights to all of the short stories that were supposed to be published long ago, bullies/wheedles/pleads people into not taking their stories back, etc.), and then last year reprinting interviews but listing Ellison’s credits differently (rather than crediting him by his most well-known work like all of the other interviewees, they listed him as a “famous comics dilettante”), plus putting up previews of a new book on their website which included potshots at Ellison. (The meat of the issue starts about 2/3 of the way down the page.) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/24 "2007-03-31T14:39:01Z")
Sounds like they deserve each other. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/25 "2007-03-31T14:50:59Z")
As the attorney for Mr. Ellison, it is my duty to inform all the above posters that you are now being sued by my client for the above mentioned comments you have posted. You have held him up to defamation in a public situation and harmed him emotionally not to mention inhibited his ability to make a living in the future. You will be receiving notices from my office in the near future. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/26 "2007-03-31T15:23:50Z")
[QUOTE=TV time] As the attorney for Mr. Ellison, it is my duty to inform all the above posters that you are now being sued by my client for the above mentioned comments you have posted. You have held him up to defamation in a public situation and harmed him emotionally not to mention inhibited his ability to make a living in the future. You will be receiving notices from my office in the near future. 😃 [/QUOTE] Unfortunately for you, I happen to be friends with the Harlan’s real-life attorney. Imagine Harlan as a lawyer and think what he could do to you. 😃 Seriously, Harlan’s lawyer is very, very, very smart. I’m surprised at this lawsuit because the facts don’t seem to add up but I would never want to go up against him. If he thinks there’s enough there to proceed with a suit, then there is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/27 "2007-03-31T18:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Ellison is by all accounts a dick, but I still think he’s one of the most badass writers of all time and can do no wrong in my eyes. [/QUOTE] But when’s the last time he wrote something? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/28 "2007-03-31T18:24:07Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Unfortunately for you, I happen to be friends with the Harlan’s real-life attorney. Imagine Harlan as a lawyer and think what he could do to you. 😃 Seriously, Harlan’s lawyer is very, very, very smart. I’m surprised at this lawsuit because the facts don’t seem to add up but I would never want to go up against him. If he thinks there’s enough there to proceed with a suit, then there is. [/QUOTE] Bullshit. Clients can, and do, force attorneys to file claims that the attorney himself thinks, “no fucking way.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/29 "2007-03-31T18:28:09Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Bullshit. Clients can, and do, force attorneys to file claims that the attorney himself thinks, “no fucking way.” 😃 [/QUOTE] And if any client could bully an attorney into making a filing, I suspect Ellison could. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/30 "2007-03-31T18:28:29Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Bullshit. Clients can, and do, force attorneys to file claims that the attorney himself thinks, “no fucking way.” 😃 [/QUOTE] It’s ethical for a lawyer to file a suit he doesn’t think he can win, or doesn’t think makes a just claim. It is **not** ethical for a lawyer to file a suit he does not believe has any legal merit. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/31 "2007-03-31T18:58:41Z")
[QUOTE=CandidGamera] I’m annoyed by the article’s assertion of some long-standing feud between comic fans and scifi fans. That’s false, and it’s pure sensationalism. [/QUOTE] The _Seattle Weekly_ is a newspaper whose target audience is rich middle-aged white people who think they’re hip and alternative. The _Weekly_ regularly tries to do edgy commentary on alternative culture and it always come out kinda sad. Their cover story from a couple weeks ago was on the cultural divide between indie rockers and frat boys. :rolleyes: > [@Rick](#): > > From the rules of life: Someone who is nice to you, but not nice to a waitress is not a nice person > From Rick’s additional rules of life: The same is true for secretaries. And it’s not just that he was rude to the secretary–he was rude to the secretary and then _bragged about it in public._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dumbest\_Guy\_in\_the\_Room](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@The\_Dumbest\_Guy\_in\_the\_Room](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Dumbest_Guy_in_the_Room)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/32 "2007-03-31T19:23:14Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Stories about Harlan are legend in SF circles. How, if you ask him to autograph a particular book of his, he will ask what you paid for it, give you the cash, then tear it into pieces. He’s a hell of a writer, though. [/QUOTE] Slthough the way you’ve [hrased it makes me think I _should_ know, I have no idea. Which book are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/33 "2007-03-31T21:05:48Z")
[QUOTE=The Dumbest Guy in the Room] Slthough the way you’ve [hrased it makes me think I _should_ know, I have no idea. Which book are you talking about? [/QUOTE] I had a copy, but I had asked Harlan to autograph it . .. Seriously, I don’t recall the name of the book, but it was one of his early paperback original novels. It’s also possible the story is apocryphal; one never knows about Harlan. The secretary story is my impression of what he said at an I-Con in 1995 or so (Babylon 5 was on the air). OTOH, Ellison riffed on how some other writer was being a jerk to him and seemed to be trashing this guy, until he Ellison read the book and admitted not only that the guy (F. Gwynplaine MacIntyre) had a point, but that he his book was terrific; I’m sure Harlan’s praise sold quite a few extra copies for MacIntyre. At the time, BTW, I was counted as a Friend of Ellison, since I had been attacked online by the then-current #1 Enemy of Ellison. I also had recently been listed on a magazine cover with him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/34 "2007-03-31T21:18:18Z")
Classic filksong, to the tune of “God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen”: Repent ye, Harlan Ellison! Says science fiction’s dead But he keeps writing more And calls it “fantasy” instead He’s retired seven times this year But he’ll come out again If you offer him an award A Galaxy or Nebula If you offer him an award ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/35 "2007-03-31T21:38:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] But when’s the last time he wrote something? [/QUOTE] Actually, the final, ten-years-late, issue of _Harlan Ellison’s Dream Corridor_ came out from Dark Horse Comics a couple weeks ago. I had given up on that nine and a half years ago, so I was quite surprised and happy. What depresses me is that his Edgeworks reprint series only lasted four volumes. He came to speak in Phoenix some years ago, and I brought in volume one of that, and after he signed it, he went through it an corrected some typos, which I thought was odd, but way cool. Yeah, he mentioned some projects that never came about, specifically a Superman comic he was writing (which was long before the most recent Superman project he was supposed to write, but didn’t - the tribute project to the recently deceased editor whose name slips my mind). He was a fantastic speaker, and I think a couple people on this board could get behind him – he warned us at the beginning that he uses foul language, except for one word he refused to use. The N-Word. (pause for effect). “Nixon.” But no doubt – total dick. But he wears that badge proudly. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/36 "2007-03-31T21:41:25Z")
[QUOTE=Hunter Hawk] Their cover story from a couple weeks ago was on the cultural divide between indie rockers and frat boys. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] I don’t know what there is to roll eyes about. I think the different college cultures are fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/37 "2007-04-01T01:31:26Z")
[QUOTE=Hunter Hawk] The _Seattle Weekly_ is a newspaper whose target audience is rich middle-aged white people who think they’re hip and alternative. The _Weekly_ regularly tries to do edgy commentary on alternative culture and it always come out kinda sad. [/QUOTE] I dropped them an email about that bit of sensationalism - they offered to consider my email for publication, but I asked just that they pass it on to the author of the piece. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/38 "2007-04-01T02:24:28Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Sounds like they deserve each other. [/QUOTE] I knew people would think this. OK, _I_ thought it. But the thing is, this will hurt Fantagraphics, & the other people who work there don’t deserve to be put in financial danger because of Groth’s idea of a righteous crusade. [QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Unfortunately for you, I happen to be friends with the Harlan’s real-life attorney. Imagine Harlan as a lawyer and think what he could do to you. 😃 [/QUOTE] Wasn’t Ellison the guy who referred to his lawyer as, “Barry the Demon Barrister”? ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2007, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947/39 "2007-04-01T02:41:58Z")
This whole thing is exceedingly regretable, on both sides. The clock’s running out on Harlan and he should be devoting it to either productive work (if he wants) or to resting on his laurels. Fantagraphic’s putting out great work and Groth shouldn’t be risking his company and his employee’s livelihood for a three-decade pissing match with Harlan. In this case, they’re both equally irresponsible and petty, and I say this as someone whose library contains a load of Fantagraphic works (back to Love and Rockets #2) and shelf of Harlan’s books, among them those cool paperbacks from the '80s [with the Barclay Shaw cover art.](http://harlanellison.com/gallery/covers.htm) Both men have fought the good fight against the major assholes of this world. Now they’re minor assholes fighting each other to no good purpose. Whichever way it comes out, it’ll be a Phyrric victory. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-harlan-ellison-really-needs-to-grow-up/397947.md?page=1)