# Wow, I didn't realize how little some voters know about government! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 21, 2024, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015 "2024-08-21T20:58:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/81 "2024-08-22T15:03:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I don’t really care if people pass a test, but I am a little bit annoyed that it’s super-easy to begin with, and they _still_ give the answers ahead of time. What’s the point in doing it in the first place? Pedagogically, isn’t this exactly what we want? Tell people what we want them to know, and then test that they do? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/82 "2024-08-22T15:05:16Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > “Where is the Statue of Liberty?” It’s a trick question. They will accept New York or New Jersey as a correct answer. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/83 "2024-08-22T15:08:41Z")
Would Las Vegas Nevada be an acceptable answer? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/84 "2024-08-22T15:10:04Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Yes well, there are test skills and then there are practical skills. What I meant was, outside of a test setting, if you talk with someone they will generally understand that the President, Congress, and Supreme Court exist and are distinct. Most people, I think, would agree that: The entire federal judiciary actually, not just the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/85 "2024-08-22T15:29:42Z")
> [@bump](#): > > They give you the list of potential questions ahead of time? What sort of BS test is that? Every engineering test I took in college. Most textbooks had sample problems, and some of them ended up on the exams. You still had to show you _understood_ the material, show how you got the answer. And Ohio has 88 countries? Can you even swing a cat without it crossing a boundary? Arizona has 15 and I still can’t name them all. They are obviously YUGE! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/86 "2024-08-22T15:29:53Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Would Las Vegas Nevada be an acceptable answer? They have _a_ Statue of Liberty not _the_ Statue of Liberty. Like [Birmingham](https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/10068) or [Harrisburg](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/mini-statue-of-liberty-harrisburg) or [El Monte](https://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/23553) or [Paris](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/statue-of-liberty-pont-de-grenelle) or [Shenzhen](https://us.trip.com/moments/detail/shenzhen-26-18341138/) Accept no substitutes for [the real thing](https://www.nps.gov/stli/planyourvisit/index.htm). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/87 "2024-08-22T15:30:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So that led me to believe that the only 18th century war would have been the Revolution IIRC, there was a little kerfuffle called the French and Indian War in the mid-century. It cost the UK a lot, so they started leaning on the colonies, on whose behalf the war was fought, to finance it. The tax burden is part of what led to that subsequent kefuffle. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/88 "2024-08-22T15:32:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They have _a_ Statue of Liberty not _the_ Statue of Liberty. That’s the one that Taylor found at the end of Planet of the Apes. I mean, he landed in Lake Powell, and only traveled by horseback. No way he ever got to NYC. The Forbidden Zone was Las Vegas (baby). According to Dr Zaius, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/89 "2024-08-22T15:39:27Z")
Oh my God, I was wrong It was Earth all along Yes, you finally made a monkey out of me ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/90 "2024-08-22T16:11:27Z")
10/10, but only because they gave me options to choose from and the the options were pretty different (_e.g., How many Amendments? I know it’s 20 something…Options: 5, 15, 27, 45_). If I had to answer the question with no help, it would have been pretty bad. So, do I know the answers? No, I don’t. I just have a general idea. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/91 "2024-08-22T16:14:06Z")
10/10 Only one required a bit of effort, the one about the national holidays. Should I migrate? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/92 "2024-08-22T17:07:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > They give you the list of potential questions ahead of time? What sort of BS test is that? They apparently give the 100 questions and answers in advance, but you don’t know which ones you will get. So you have to study all 100 Q&As. That’s a learning exercise to teach an applicant about the country. The test is just the final step. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeysBrother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@MonkeysBrother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeysBrother)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/93 "2024-08-22T17:26:57Z")
I had an older friend and he always contended that ballots should come attached to a version of the citizenship test. If you passed the test portion, then your ballot would count. I always liked that idea. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/94 "2024-08-22T17:31:41Z")
The issue with the suggestion is that when something similar was applied in the past, the testing was not evenhanded. During the Jim Crow era, there used to be “literacy tests” to vote. Of course, many white voters were grandfathered in. And in some places, more difficult tests were given to black voters. And that’s getting ahead of how decent education, especially civics, is still often not made evenly available across or within states, which is a major contributing factor to how poorly many Americans do at the sorts of tests in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeysBrother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@MonkeysBrother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeysBrother)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/95 "2024-08-22T17:40:33Z")
I agree with all your points. Ballot testing is not a real solution. But it is just fun to think of all the folks with big opinions and no actual knowledge getting weeded out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/96 "2024-08-22T17:42:55Z")
The perfect solution is to let me check each voter before they vote, if I think they are ok they can exercise the franchise, if not… well depends on how much I dislike them… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/97 "2024-08-22T18:15:49Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > The perfect solution is to let me check each voter before they vote Take off that damn ring, **Frodo**. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/98 "2024-08-22T18:17:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So that led me to believe that the only 18th century war would have been the Revolution. I really hate the term '18th century"- why not just say - the 1700s. Shorter, more precise. Less of a trick question. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/99 "2024-08-22T18:21:05Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > The perfect solution is to let me check each voter before they vote, if I think they are ok they can exercise the franchise, if not… well depends on how much I dislike them… Or how much they are willing to pay in “polling service access fees”? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015/100 "2024-08-22T18:21:16Z")
Well yeah, but more in the style of teaching them the subject material, and then testing them to verify that they learned it. Giving the entire list of actual questions and then testing them on a subset just tests memorization ability, not actual understanding, etc. I mean, yeah you have to look up the answers somewhere, but that’s trivial. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Every engineering test I took in college. Most textbooks had sample problems, and some of them ended up on the exams. You still had to show you _understood_ the material, show how you got the answer. I’m willing to bet few of those if any were scantron style multiple choice tests. We had something similar in graduate school; open book tests, where it wasn’t whether we knew the formulas, but rather if we could work through the relevant finance or statistics problems to find the correct answer. That took being able to understand _which_ formulas to apply and when to apply them during the process. This citizenship test isn’t anywhere near requiring anyone to do anything similar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-i-didnt-realize-how-little-some-voters-know-about-government/1006015.md?page=6)