# Wow, Kelsey Grammer is a Trump supporter? I thought he was intelligent **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 4, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105 "2023-12-04T17:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/61 "2023-12-06T00:18:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’ve heard of blood diamonds, now we have blood reruns. “Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/62 "2023-12-06T01:50:18Z")
Forget it @digs, it’s trumptown now. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/63 "2023-12-06T03:23:04Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > All I’m saying is that if I’m a rich white conservative guy in America and I have to choose between Trump and any Democrat, voting for Trump isn’t necessarily against my personal interests. Morally bankrupt? Sure. Idiocy or lunacy? Nah, not so long as you’re willing to not give a shit about the other 99% of Americans. ⁢ It’s not that Project 2025 would itself create the problem. It’s that it’s combined with Trump’s desire to remain in power indefinitely. It gets rid of the people who have the ability to stop him or at least slow him down. It’s the dictatorship that it is irrational to think would not affect the rich white person. When you look at various other dictatorships, you don’t see them leaving the rich people alone. For example, Putin takes like 50% of all their profit, for example, and disposes of anyone who displeases him. The reason to want money is power. Rich people are a threat to people who want power. What is more likely is that Grammer doesn’t actually think Trump is going to be a dictator. That’s usually the stance of most Trump supporters. They embrace the stuff they like, but don’t believe the stuff they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/64 "2023-12-06T03:41:55Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > This surely will qualify Grammer for Crony status. There’s plenty of room in Trump’s ego for well-placed fans. I don’t know. Grammer’s a popular actor. Trump doesn’t like having anyone in the room who will distract attention away from himself. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/65 "2023-12-06T07:18:51Z")
Grammer also supported Michelle Bachmann in 2012. He’s a True Believer. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/66 "2023-12-06T20:05:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I think he still is! What, even after all this time? Well it just goes to show, some people just can’t be rehabilitated, no matter how hard you try. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/67 "2023-12-06T20:39:43Z")
Him being one of the Hollywood conservatives is about the only thing I know about Kelsey Grammer other than being the guy from Frasier. I actually recall him being a self described libertarian which IMO is another example of how the trump era has completely exposed that entire movement as unprincipled frauds If you are saying Obama is as much, or more of, a threat to your “liberties” as McCain I’ll buy that as political belief system (I disagree strongly but I believe that is an honestly held belief). If you are saying Biden is as much, or more of, a threat to your “liberties” as Trump, then I call bullshit. Trump has said on numerous occasions how much he wants to be a [dictator](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/12/06/trump-dictator-day-one-hannity/) and how much [he hates the first amendment](https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-libel-laws-219866). He is objectively a far bigger threat to our liberties (even if you choose to include not paying taxes in those liberties) than any Democrat. If you support trump you can’t claim to give a crap about ‘liberties’ you just want to pay less taxes and hate on brown people. The fact none of the plethora of the high profile libertarians (they seemed to be everywhere on the right in the Obama era as I recall) have come out unambiguously against Trump has exposed that movement as a sham IMO ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/68 "2023-12-06T21:52:31Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > He is objectively a far bigger threat to our liberties (even if you choose to include not paying taxes in those liberties) than any Democrat. Prior to Trump’s election I was a conservative with Libertarian tendencies (though I’d become more moderate over the years). I recognized him as someone absolutely not conservative. He was and is a big government guy. The biggest red flag for me back then (before his disaster of a presidency) was his love affair with eminent domain. [https://www.cato.org/commentary/donald-trumps-eminent-domain-love-nearly-cost-widow-her-house](https://www.cato.org/commentary/donald-trumps-eminent-domain-love-nearly-cost-widow-her-house) > **[Donald Trump really did try to take an elderly widow's house for a limousine...](https://www.vox.com/2016/2/7/10931176/donald-trump-eminent-domain)** > > The courts ultimately blocked Trump from taking the home, but other targets of eminent domain haven't been so lucky. He was pretty vocal about it even as he was running for nomination and then the presidency. I didn’t understand how so-called conservatives were selling out the core of their whole philosophy in the service of a cult of personality for this clown. The government seizing people’s public property for the “greater good” embodied the sort of “socialist” thing the right accused the left of trying to do. Then as POTUS, sure enough he tried to use it as a weapon. > **[Look Who’s Trying to Seize Private Property](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/trump-seize-private-property/602161/)** > > The Trump administration wants to use eminent domain to build the border wall. > **[New report details Trump effort to seize thousands of acres of private land...](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump-border-wall-plans-private-land-seizure/)** > > The Justice Department has filed more than 100 lawsuits against landowners to seize their property along the U.S.-Mexico border. Then there is the way he cozies up with the likes of Putin and Kim Jong Un, and then directly attacked democracy itself with subverting the voting process and its integrity. He’s the most anti-Libertarian POTUS in recent times. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/69 "2023-12-07T02:25:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > All I’m saying is that if I’m a rich white conservative guy in America and I have to choose between Trump and any Democrat, voting for Trump isn’t necessarily against my personal interests. Morally bankrupt? Sure. Idiocy or lunacy? Nah, not so long as you’re willing to not give a shit about the other 99% of Americans. You should ask Mike Pence how that turns out. Or any of the people who stuck their necks out for Trump after he had promised them a pardon. (e.g. Cohen, Giuliani, Bannon, Rhodes . . .) They all wind up bankrupt and imprisoned. Unless they have some further usefulness to Trump, he doesn’t give a rip. It is impossible, with a man as sick as Trump, to please him well enough, long enough, to stay in favor. And he doesn’t just forget former supply. They must be contained. Anyone who is too successful (has more money than Trump) will also be in his sights. He will never be satisfied with anyone, ever. Here’s what that will look like ten years from now - possibly with a new Trump sitting his chair: > **[Suspicious deaths of Russian businesspeople (2022–2023)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_businesspeople_(2022%E2%80%932023))** > > Since the beginning of 2022, multiple unusual deaths of Russian businesspeople or high officials, sometimes including their family members, have occurred under what some sources suggest were suspicious circumstances. > On 3 June 2022 the Dutch NOS news network described the phenomenon as "a grim series of Russian billionaires, many from the oil and gas industries, who have been found dead under unusual circumstances since early this year. The first was on 30 January, when 60-year-old Leonid Sh... ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/70 "2023-12-07T03:08:26Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You should ask Mike Pence how that turns out. Mike Pence, and the rest of them, did _juuuuust_ a teensy bit more than vote for Trump, which is the only thing I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/71 "2023-12-07T04:53:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Mike Pence, and the rest of them, did _juuuuust_ a teensy bit more than vote for Trump I’m pretty sure Mike Pence gave Trump a ‘handy’ at some point. Hey, he’s not allowed to be alone with any females but Mother didn’t say anything about men. Tell me I’m wrong: [![](https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1312065/donald-trump-mike-pence-satanic-temple-leader-lucien-graves.jpg) ](https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1312065/donald-trump-mike-pence-satanic-temple-leader-lucien-graves.jpg) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/72 "2023-12-07T05:35:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Tell me I’m wrong: Stop inserting your bizarre porn in my head! (Ok, I could stop reading these things, but still.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/73 "2023-12-07T06:13:03Z")
One legit “smart person” actor who supports Trump (and is a truly obnoxious conservative overall) is James Woods. He graduated MIT and originally meant to be an eye surgeon. Generally, intelligence inoculates against conservative bullshit but not always. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/74 "2023-12-07T11:03:38Z")
James Woods once played Rudy Giuliani in _Rudy:The Rudy Giuliani Movie._ It got him an Emmy nomination. [‘Hilarious’ Rudy Giuliani clip starring James Woods resurfaces: ‘Not sure if this is a comedy or a horror movie’ | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/james-woods-rudy-giuliani-story-trump-b1760864.htmlu) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/75 "2023-12-07T14:03:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Generally, intelligence inoculates against conservative bullshit but not always. I have seen no evidence of this. On the contrary, I know some very smart people who have slid all the way down the MAGA rabbit hole, and who have used their intellect to rationale why obvious nonsense and mistruths are irrelevant to their advocacy of Trump. Intelligence also does not ‘inoculate’ against extreme left-wing bullshit, either. Smart people of whatever political stripe are not innately more logical but they are much better at rationalising their belief systems. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/76 "2023-12-07T14:38:25Z")
Not important enough to make another thread, but what the hell happened to Rob Riggle? He’s in a Daily Wire cartoon, now. Is he no longer a liberal? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/gdBODSx8GMY/maxresdefault.jpg "Mr. Birchum | The Official Trailer") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdBODSx8GMY) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/77 "2023-12-07T14:50:46Z")
And Patrick Warburton? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/78 "2023-12-07T15:01:20Z")
Was he _ever_ ‘liberal’? He’s a former Marine, and while being in “The Corps” doesn’t make you conservative by default I don’t think I’ve ever know anyone with a Marine background who wasn’t distinctly right of center. There seems to be a lot of assumption that because and actor has played a character who is obviously liberal or has appeared with other actors with more left-leaning politics that they must also share those views. But again, ‘Hollywood’ (film and television production) is a big industry with a lot of diversity including creed and values. Just because there are outspoken far-left actors doesn’t mean that they represent any kind of consensus or are representative of some mean. And upon review, that cartoon is terribly unfunny; basically an amalgam of all the mindless ‘Own The Libs’ tropes. At least it is at least keeping Megyn Kelly off of the unemployment line, I guess. \*snark\* Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/79 "2023-12-07T15:03:20Z")
You may be right, but dude was a correspondent on a The Daily Show, so… I just figured. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/80 "2023-12-07T15:06:39Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > There seems to be a lot of assumption that because and actor has played a character who is obviously liberal or has appeared with other actors with more left-leaning politics that they must also share those views. True but, usually, people tend to “fit in” with their peer group. Not least so they get invited to all the best parties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105.md?page=5)