# Wow, Kelsey Grammer is a Trump supporter? I thought he was intelligent **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [December 4, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105 "2023-12-04T17:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/81 "2023-12-07T15:14:21Z")
You can fit in socially or professionally w/o having to be in full ideological alignment all the way. You go along to to get along especially in an industry so heavily dependent on personal relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/82 "2023-12-07T15:26:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Generally, intelligence inoculates against conservative bullshit but not always. Too much evidence against this How many PhDs (albeit not civil engineers) bought into all those 9/11 conspiracy theories? If anything, intelligence in one field often acts as a blinder, potentially leading one far astray in areas outside their expertise while also providing too much personal pride to admit error or ignorance ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/83 "2023-12-07T15:53:40Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > He’s a former Marine, and while being in “The Corps” doesn’t make you conservative by default I don’t think I’ve ever know anyone with a Marine background who wasn’t distinctly right of center. You know of at least one now. Semper Fi ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/84 "2023-12-07T15:55:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I have seen no evidence of this. On the contrary, I know some very smart people who have slid all the way down the MAGA rabbit hole, and who have used their intellect to rationale why obvious nonsense and mistruths are irrelevant to their advocacy of Trump. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Too much evidence against this I’m not convinced. I mean, sure, it’s a big world and doubtless you can find examples of such people. I think most such supporters of Trump (intelligent) are cynically cashing in by aligning with that side of the political spectrum. We saw this in some of the discovery during the Dominion lawsuit against Fox News. There were emails sent internally talking about some of the crazy going on in support of Trump but it didn’t change their outward message. I think if you dump 100 random Trumpers and 100 random non-Trumpers in separate buckets and put them on a scale the stupid will distinctly tip in favor of the Trumpers. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/85 "2023-12-07T16:10:30Z")
They’re certainly louder about it. That’s one of the things about intelligence. If you know you’re going to sound like a raging racist/sexist/whatever and you are reasonably intelligent, you are probably going to both wrap your beliefs in some fluffier language and generally not be a aggressively belligerent to all and sundry That’s rather the premise of the thread. There’s plenty of otherwise intelligent people who are Trump supporters and into some bizarre theories but it comes as a surprise because they aren’t brandishing assault weapons publicly, aren’t being openly hateful, and generally behave like civilized people. He won more votes this last election than all but one person in US history. It’s something we see on this board all the time. Otherwise intelligent people who buy into JFK conspiracy theories, 9/11 conspiracy theories, conspiracy theories of all stripes. They’re not all deliberately trolling. Mere intelligence does not inoculate one from nonsensical or even harmful beliefs ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/86 "2023-12-07T16:21:41Z")
My buddy, in so many ways he’s the smartest guy I know. He told me his IQ once, and though I don’t remember the exact number, it was ridiculously high. He’s not voting for Trump, but RFK. I can’t argue with him sometimes because I lack the energy. We mostly avoid politics. On the other side of the coin, I’m an idiot and a Leftist. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/87 "2023-12-07T16:26:19Z")
Let’s not forget that Gammer was in “An America Carol” back in 2008. > **[An American Carol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_American_Carol)** > > An American Carol (released as Big Fat Important Movie in other territories) is a 2008 American satirical comedy film directed by David Zucker and written by Zucker, Myrna Sokoloff and Lewis Friedman. Using the framework of Charles Dickens' 1843 novella A Christmas Carol, the film follows liberal filmmaker Michael Malone (a parody of Michael Moore) as he is visited by three spirits to teach him the importance of Independence Day. The film satirizes liberalism in the United States, with focu Theat... ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/88 "2023-12-07T16:58:30Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Too much evidence against this Inoculation is probably too strong a word but I would say there tends to be less conservative views in communities where rational evidence-based beliefs are emphasized, like academia and the tech industry (the other whole “reality has a liberal bias” thing, coined by Stephen Colbert IIRC). Not that being part of those communities is synonymous with intelligence (or making rational unbiased decisions) I think the rise of the libertarian movement was a reaction to that. It sold itself as a rational, evidence based form of conservatism (unlike those bible thumping irrational traditional conservatives). The wholesale embrace of Trump by all those libertarians like Kelsey Grammer (but not @Atamasama, much credit to them) shows that for sham it was. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/89 "2023-12-07T17:07:26Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Was he _ever_ ‘liberal’? He’s a former Marine, and while being in “The Corps” doesn’t make you conservative by default I don’t think I’ve ever know anyone with a Marine background who wasn’t distinctly right of center [![](https://www.wearethemighty.com/uploads/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2021-05-19-at-7.55.31-PM.png?auto=webp&optimize=high&crop=16:9,smart&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=750) ](https://www.wearethemighty.com/uploads/2021/05/Screen-Shot-2021-05-19-at-7.55.31-PM.png?auto=webp&optimize=high&crop=16:9,smart&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=750) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/90 "2023-12-07T17:26:29Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Too much evidence against this > > How many PhDs (albeit not civil engineers) bought into all those 9/11 conspiracy theories? I knew a very liberal, lefty guy who was a full on 9/11 conspiracy theorist. In a very gentle, respectful way - he’d try proselytizing his friends, but quickly back off and agree to disagree if they pushed back on/were uncomfortable with the topic. But man he had an entire shelf of 9/11 conspiracy publications. Only a Master’s degree, but he was essentially a PhD-level researcher who published regularly and was and is very respected in his rather esoteric field. Intelligence is only a first line of defense against nonsense and is very, very easily overridden by biases and emotional resonance. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/91 "2023-12-07T17:27:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think if you dump 100 random Trumpers and 100 random non-Trumpers in separate buckets and put them on a scale the stupid will distinctly tip in favor of the Trumpers. That’s an assertion, not evidence. It’s deceptively easy (as well as intellectually lazy) to just portray people who disagree with you as ignorant or stupid instead of just coming from different values that skews their view of the world. And frankly, there are a lot of really stupid self-identified liberals, too; people who just mindlessly repeat talking points of those who they are aligned with without understanding or thinking about the practicality of implementing them. Stupidity is not a political spectrum. > [@Cardigan](#): > > You know of at least one now. > Semper Fi > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > Fair enough, and I’m sure there are more (although Farrell was only in for two years, so clearly not a ‘lifer’) but I’d say that military veterans tend to skew rightward in general, and Marines particularly so just from an institutional perspective, and even when it is contrary to interests. I knew a lot of Vietnam veterans who were bitter as hell about how they were treated by the government, and hated Nixon with a passion, but were die-hard Reagan fans and thought that the only mistake that GHW Bush made with Iraq was not deposing Saddam Hussain. Regardless, it is also easier than most people want to acknowledge to change political views. Riggle might have been super-liberal during his time at _The Daily Show_ but then veered hard-right later due to any number of life experiences; death of a friend or family member by opioids, a bad divorce, adverse legal judgement, the pandemic, anti-vax propaganda, et cetera. Steve Bannon was reportedly politically moderate and mostly disinterested during his days as an investment banker and executive producer in the film industry, and at one point was an acting director at Biosphere 2 while it was doing research on the effects of industrial pollution and climate change. He only turned into an alt-right goon after working with Andrew Breitbart and Paul Schweizer. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/92 "2023-12-07T17:35:17Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > That’s an assertion… What tipped you off? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think… Funny thing is, the rest of what you wrote is an assertion. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/93 "2023-12-07T18:20:55Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > He’s not voting for Trump, but RFK. Though this is quirk of the post-Covid political spectrum. Before covid RFK’s style of anti-vax batshaitery was absolutely associated with the fringe far left (not the flag waving anarcho-communist arm, but the hippy naturopath granola-eating arm). During covid there was a cynical decision by the GOP to co-opt those anti-vax beliefs for political purposes (a decision that killed 10s of thousands of GOP supporters) and basically make them part of the GOP platform. It will hopefully come back to bite the GOP as the numbers are apparently showing that his independent run is likely to take more voters from Trump than from Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/94 "2023-12-07T18:24:01Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Intelligence is only a first line of defense against nonsense and is very, very easily overridden by biases and emotional resonance. The reason why intelligent people fall for that stuff is because its easy for them to think, well the conventional wisdom is this thing, but I’m smarter than most people which is why I know the conventional wisdom is wrong. The moon landings were fake, 9/11 was an inside job, vaccines are secretly mutating people, and the 2020 election was stolen. I know those things and other people are too dumb to believe them. Also, they’ll talk themselves into all kinds of crazy BS. Because while they’re smart, when they’re telling themselves something, it’s coming from a smart person. > **[Why Are Smart People Some of the Most Gullible People Around?](https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/why-are-smart-people-some-of-the-most-gullible-people-around)** > > Former DISCOVER editor Paul Hoffman consults with the hotheaded naked ice borer to find out why our species has such a consistent tendency to be fooled. > I told the magician Penn Jillette about the ice borers. “Smart people learn to believe things that are counterintuitive,” he said. “Black holes, string theory, germs, trips to the moon, radio waves—they’ve had practice believing crazy s–t.” Penn was right, of course. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/95 "2023-12-07T18:24:09Z")
Yes, but my friend isn’t on the left and was conspiratorial about vaccines, 911, the Clintons, before the pandemic. Just clarifying that. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/96 "2023-12-07T18:39:37Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > my friend isn’t on the left and was conspiratorial about vaccines, 911, the Clintons, before the pandemic. Ah ok. That community of right wing vaguely new-age batshaitery has always been there (though a minority) it was covid that caused the GOP to adopt it as a mainstream policy platform. It’s also why some of the more surprising artists coming out as a MAGA, never actually “changed sides” IMO. There tends to be an assumption that if you are a weird, but talented, artist with fringe anti-establishment political beliefs (eg Kanje) your kooky our there political beliefs are left wing. But that is not necessarily the case. Edit: I actually thought MIA had come out as maga, based on social media, she hasn’t she’s anti-vax and anti-5g but still solidly on the left wing side of that kooky political spectrum ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/97 "2023-12-07T18:57:16Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > the magician Penn Jillette So (somewhat) in defense of libertarians I’d definitely consider him one of the “high profile libertarians” you’d hear about in the Obama years and he has definitely not drunk the [maga KoolAid](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette): > He stated in 2008 that he “always” votes [Libertarian](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)),[[45]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-vote-45) and endorsed Libertarian Party nominee [Gary Johnson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Johnson) for President in 2012[[48]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-love_tweet-48)[[49]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-garyjohnson2012-49)[[50]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-foxnewshannity-50) and 2016.[[51]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-51) However, he participated in [vote swapping](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_pairing) in 2016 by voting for Democratic nominee [Hillary Clinton](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton) in the swing state of Nevada, in exchange for “10 or 11” of his friends promising to vote for Johnson in [blue states](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_state) like California and New York.[[52]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-52) > > In 2020, Jillette distanced himself from aspects of libertarianism, particularly surrounding [COVID-19](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19). In an interview with [Big Think](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Think), he stated, “[A] lot of the illusions that I held dear, rugged individualism, individual freedoms, are coming back to bite us in the ass.” He went on to elaborate, “[I]t seems like getting rid of the gatekeepers gave us [Trump](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump) as president, and in the same breath, in the same wind, gave us not wearing masks, and maybe gave us a huge unpleasant amount of overt racism.”[[53]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-53) > > In the [2020 United States presidential election](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election), Jillette endorsed [Andrew Yang](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Yang) in the [Democratic primary](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries).[[54]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette#cite_note-54) In an op-ed for [CNN](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN) after that year’s [general election](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_election), he stated that he “used to identify as Libertarian”, but voted for [Joe Biden](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/98 "2023-12-07T19:34:18Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I can’t help but think of the meme floating around of Kelsey Grammer’s head on a Nazi and the phrase “Grammer Nazi” below. Of course a Grammer Nazi would support Trump. Amazingly, Nazis were not Grammar Nazis, as I investigated it a while ago: > [@Were Nazis Grammar Nazis?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/were-nazis-grammar-nazis/785540/11): > > This educational site quotes from _A Social History of the Third Reich_ by Richard Grunberger, among others. > > [https://spartacus-educational.com/GEReducation.htm](https://spartacus-educational.com/GEReducation.htm) > > > [@](#): > > > > Bernhard Rust introduced a Nazi National Curriculum. Considerable emphasis was placed on physical training. Boxing was made compulsory in upper schools and PT became an examination subject for grammar-school entry as well as for the school-leaving certificate. Persistently unsatisfactory performance at PT constituted grounds for expulsion from school and for debarment from further studies. In 1936 timetable allocation of PT periods was increased from two to three. Two years later it was increased to five periods. All teachers below the age of fifty were pressed into compulsory PT courses. (41) > > > > Rust also establishment of élite schools called Nationalpolitische Erziehungsanstalten (Napolas). Selection for entry included racial origins, physical fitness and membership of the Hitler Youth. These schools, run by the Schutzstaffel (SS), had the task of training the next generation of high-ranking people in the Nazi Party and the German Army. (42) The syllabus was that of ordinary grammar schools with political inculcation in place of religious instruction and a tremendous emphasis on such sports as boxing, war games, rowing, sailing, gliding, shooting and riding motor-cycles. Only two out of the thirty-nine Napolas constructed over the next few years catered for girls. (43) > > Other cites in that page pointed to how Hitler actually inherited a very conservative educational system, meaning that _what the Nazis did was to get rid of the grammar Nazis_ and concentrate more in physical activities (meaning more future soldiers) that were more important for the Reich. > > And even if the Germans noticed, they could not do much about the degradation of items like grammar. > > > [@](#): > > > > Teachers encouraged members of the Hitler Youth to inform on their parents. For example, they set essays entitled “What does your family talk about at home?” According to one source: “Parents… were alarmed by the gradual brutalization of manners,\*\* impoverishment of vocabulary\*\* and rejection of traditional values… Their children became strangers, contemptuous of monarchy or religion, and perpetually barking and shouting like pint-sized Prussian sergeant-majors.” (31) > > Bold added. I would think, as Trump and others do attack education in the US, they would also be bad Grammar Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/99 "2023-12-07T21:08:52Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > So (somewhat) in defense of libertarians I’d definitely consider him one of the “high profile libertarians” you’d hear about in the Obama years and he has definitely not drunk the [maga KoolAid](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Jillette): The Skeptic community is filled with Libertarians. Michael Shermer, Penn and Teller, James Randi, Ricky Jay, etc. Engineering is one of the more conservative-laden faculties on most campuses, and engineering students score among the smartest. I’m not saying smart people should be conservative or libertarian. I’m saying that smart people can rationalize their way into just about anything, so there’s no ideological bias. You can find geniuses on the radical left and the libertarian right. As for Hollywood, I listen to a podcast with Rob Long, who wrote for and was the producer of Cheers. He says Hollywood has lots of conservatives. Some of them known, most not. He says it’s not safe to out yourself as a conservative unless you are already a big star with proven money-making talent. Ask Gina Carano. There was until recently (2016) a ‘secret society’ (not that secret anymore) of Hollywood conservatives and libertarians called the ‘Friends of Abe’ (Abe Lincoln. It’s not a Jewish group). It was started by Gary Sinise and screenwriter Lional Chetwynd. By 2012 it had 1800 members! But the membership list is a closely guarded secret to keep their careers intact. Some people who have admitted to being in the group include Kevin Sorbo, Kelsey Grammar and Jon Voight. IMDB maintains a list of ‘out’ conservative actors. Some prominent examples: Kurt Russell Dean Caine Tom Berenger Cheryl Ladd Andy Garcia Paul Sorvino Cathy Ireland Ron Silver George Hamilton Drew Carey Lorne Michaels (!!) Sylvester Stallone Laura Prepon Jim Belushi David Lynch Tom Selleck James Caan Dennis Hopper James Woods Adam Sandler Heather Locklear Jim Caviziel Clint Eastwood Arnold Schwarzenegger Vince Vaughan Joe Pesci Rip Torn Bruce Willis Sela Ward Scott Baio Jon Cryer Jennifer Love-Hewitt Denzel Washington Bo Derek Mel Gibson > **[Conservative and/or Republican Actors - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/list/ls047371672/?sort=list_order,asc&mode=detail&page=2)** > > Conservative and/or Republican Actors BTW, that’s not a ‘MAGA’ list. I’m guessing the majority of those people are not Trump fans. Also note that Friends of Abe folded in 2016 when Trump was elected, and I think it was because of a split between Trump supporters and non-suypporters. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105/100 "2023-12-07T21:21:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > One legit “smart person” actor who supports Trump (and is a truly obnoxious conservative overall) is James Woods. He graduated MIT and originally meant to be an eye surgeon. This post piqued my curiosity about Ben Stein, another “smart person” actor (Yale Law valedictorian!) and well-known conservative. Seems he spoke out against Trump in 2016 but later changed his tune: > **[Ben Stein Blasted for Saying Both Trump and Nixon 'Kicked Out of Office'](https://www.newsweek.com/ben-stein-donald-trump-richard-nixon-kicked-out-office-lara-trump-podcast-comments-1746373)** > > The actor also argued during a recent podcast that the two embattled presidents had done "exactly nothing wrong." [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-kelsey-grammer-is-a-trump-supporter-i-thought-he-was-intelligent/994105.md?page=6)