# Wow, Led Zeppelin are a bunch of plagiarizers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 21, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056 "2014-10-21T18:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/1 "2014-10-21T18:24:11Z")
I gather this is hardly news – there’s content all over YouTube that dates back 10 years and more – but new to me after a friend showed me a link to [this Rolling Stone article](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/led-zeppelins-stairway-to-heaven-targeted-for-plagiarism-20140519). While frankly, I’m somewhat okay with Zep ripping off all these artists because otherwise the songs wouldn’t have existed, I’m in awe of _how much_ Zeppelin ripped off and how blatantly they did it – and that this has never been big news. They have sorta gone from what I considered musical geniuses (yeah, YMMV, big time), to being the Sammy Sosa(s) of Rock n’ Roll. They should have been sued back to the Stone Age years ago. Maybe the devil made them do it. Here’s a link to half of a [Howard Stern interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdr8PtUPIPo) with a lawyer who was pursuing the case. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/2 "2014-10-21T18:38:01Z")
> [@Moonchild](#): > > I gather this is hardly news – there’s content all over YouTube that dates back 10 years and more – but new to me after a friend showed me a link to [this Rolling Stone article](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/led-zeppelins-stairway-to-heaven-targeted-for-plagiarism-20140519). > > While frankly, I’m somewhat okay with Zep ripping off all these artists because otherwise the songs wouldn’t have existed, I’m in awe of _how much_ Zeppelin ripped off and how blatantly they did it – and that this has never been big news. They have sorta gone from what I considered musical geniuses (yeah, YMMV, big time), to being the Sammy Sosa(s) of Rock n’ Roll. They should have been sued back to the Stone Age years ago. Well, it has been “big news” for a long time to knowledgeable rock fans not blinded by Led Zeppelin idolatry. Yes, there have always been “borrowings” in all genres of music, from classical to popular. But there is NO example that can be brought forth from anywhere where one artist’s borrowings (or more accurately, out-and-out thefts) have been both as blatant and as numerous as the case of Led Zeppelin. As one who appreciates some of the band’s work but is not as slavishly enamored of them as many seem to be, I have always found it to be one of the most disgusting stories in the history of rock. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/3 "2014-10-21T18:39:31Z")
I think we just had a very long thread about this exact subject a couple months back. Can’t find it for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/4 "2014-10-21T18:40:54Z")
The issue isn’t that Led Zep took other songs – every other rock group has done cover versions of songs. It’s that they did it without properly crediting (and paying) the original artist. The Beatles, for instance, made “Twist and Shout” one one of their signature songs, and Lennon’s vocals are amazing. But they have always credited the Isley Brothers as song writers. Led Zep very often did not, and even now refuses to acknowledge they did. Even “[Dazed and Confused](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1g7qFaWaLk)” – which is taken wholesale from Jake Holmes – doesn’t give him a credit. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/5 "2014-10-21T18:49:40Z")
meh, if that link is anything to go by they don’t have much of a case. They may be a bit of an influence going on but it is nowhere near the same song. Had I heard it blind I’m not sure I would know which song was supposed to have ripped it off. I think it is perfectly fine to be influenced by others and to take small sequences of notes that appeal to you. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/6 "2014-10-21T18:57:46Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > I think we just had a very long thread about this exact subject a couple months back. Can’t find it for some reason. I know it’s been discussed before, but the most recent thread I could find was [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=697101) from 2013; and it’s not all that long. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/7 "2014-10-21T19:06:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The Beatles, for instance, made “Twist and Shout” one one of their signature songs, and Lennon’s vocals are amazing. But they have always credited the Isley Brothers as song writers. (Inevitable) Nitpick: The writers of “Twist and Shout” were Bert Berns and Phil Medley. Further trivia: While the Beatles no doubt learned the song from the Isleys’ hit, the first version was recorded by a group called the Top Notes. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/8 "2014-10-21T19:35:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > meh, if that link is anything to go by they don’t have much of a case. They may be a bit of an influence going on but it is nowhere near the same song. Had I heard it blind I’m not sure I would know which song was supposed to have ripped it off. > I think it is perfectly fine to be influenced by others and to take small sequences of notes that appeal to you. If that one example was the extent of LZ’s theft, I might agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/9 "2014-10-21T19:37:40Z")
> [@Moonchild](#): > > I gather this is hardly news – there’s content all over YouTube that dates back 10 years and more – :eek: There is???!?!!!?? How the fuck did someone do that?? ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/10 "2014-10-21T19:52:15Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > meh, if that link is anything to go by they don’t have much of a case. They may be a bit of an influence going on but it is nowhere near the same song. Had I heard it blind I’m not sure I would know which song was supposed to have ripped it off. Wow…get back to us when you’ve cleaned out your ears and know the first thing about music. The same title, the descending bass line with precisely the same notes, the same disoriented and psychedelic “feel” of the song, even the stop part with the same pattern of rhythmic tapping (done by the guitars and drums in Zep’s version)…all are _identical_. Screeching the vocal an octave higher and adding more distortion to the guitars doesn’t change any of that. It is EXACTLY “the same song” with some lyrics changed (and by the way, Page didn’t even bother to do that when he first performed the song with The Yardbirds — Plant rewrote them somewhat for the Led Zep version). If you played Holmes’ version and Zep’s back to back to 25 people, I’d be amazed if you’d find another who agreed with you. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/11 "2014-10-21T19:58:10Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > I think we just had a very long thread about this exact subject a couple months back. Can’t find it for some reason. Found it - back in [May](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723826), with a fair amount of debate. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/12 "2014-10-21T20:01:06Z")
Yeah. A while ago, I watched [these two](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zThdTAWQFAQ) which compare the original and Zep’s, erm, not-original. While the maker of the videos may have had a _little_ too much time on his hands, the point is definitely made. Before I heard them, I was expecting general things - same chord sequence, same general tone, etc. But on quite a few of them, they’re literally cover versions. It really is mind-blowing how they managed to get away with it. The fact that, in my opinion, in most cases their version of the song is worse doesn’t exactly help matters. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/13 "2014-10-21T20:31:30Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Wow…get back to us when you’ve cleaned out your ears and know the first thing about music. Classy. > [@](#): > > The same title, the descending bass line with precisely the same notes, the same disoriented and psychedelic “feel” of the song, even the stop part with the same pattern of rhythmic tapping (done by the guitars and drums in Zep’s version)…all are _identical_. Screeching the vocal an octave higher and adding more distortion to the guitars doesn’t change any of that. Are we listening to the same link? the one in the Rolling Stone interview mentioned in the OP…[this one here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8AVbwB_6E). I just played it to my wife and asked her which song it reminded her of, She says “Hey You” from “The Wall” ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/14 "2014-10-21T20:38:21Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Found it - back in [May](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723826), with a fair amount of debate. There was debate in that thread because it’s nowhere close to being clear that _Stairway to Heaven_ was a ripoff of _Taurus_. I don’t think there’s much debate in this thread because it points out a number of cases of blatant highway robbery on the part of Page & Plant. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/15 "2014-10-21T20:39:50Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > If you played Holmes’ version and Zep’s back to back to 25 people, I’d be amazed if you’d find another who agreed with you. Ah, this is “Dazed and Confused”? Yeah, that passes for what I would call a clear rip-off. The Taurus - “Stairway” connection I’d call significantly different enough, although I would say they were certainly influenced by it. Regardless, they’ve had plenty of unattributed “reworkings” of songs that they should be called out for it. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/16 "2014-10-21T20:59:30Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Are we listening to the same link? the one in the Rolling Stone interview mentioned in the OP…[this one here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8AVbwB_6E). > > I just played it to my wife and asked her which song it reminded her of, She says “Hey You” from “The Wall” My apologies. I assumed you were speaking of the link in the post immediately preceding yours, which leads to Jake Holmes’ “Dazed and Confused.” I didn’t follow the _Rolling Stone_ link as I assumed it was text rather than music, and I already know the story well. If you were indeed discussing the similarity between the opening bars of “Taurus” and “Stairway to Heaven,” I would agree that this is much more tenuous. There is a likeness, and it’s also true that Spirit opened for Led Zeppelin, thus giving the latter in theory an opportunity for ripping them off. But this one is several notches down the list of egregious Led Zeppelin thefts. There are plenty of more obvious ones ahead of it! ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/17 "2014-10-21T21:48:33Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > My apologies. I assumed you were speaking of the link in the post immediately preceding yours, which leads to Jake Holmes’ “Dazed and Confused.” Ah! I see, I hadn’t followed the link to “dazed and confused”. Now I have and can see what you mean. No apology required, just a simple misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/18 "2014-10-21T22:08:03Z")
I’m gonna veer a little off-topic here, but recently I’ve been listening to The Staples Singers and am wondering how similar other folks find the refrain of that song with a part of Madonna’s “Express Yourself”: [Express Yourself.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsVcUzP_O_8#t=133) [Repect Yorself](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pYKdqD1ls#t=60). I find those parts quite similar myself. I don’t know whether they were intentional or subconscious borrowings (it happens when you write songs), but it’s interesting as some people claim they hear no similarity while to me they’re quite obviously almost the same. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/19 "2014-10-21T23:14:35Z")
Lots of British rock bands in the sixties started out by covering and/or stealing American blues. Led Zeppelin’s problem was they kept doing it even after they got big. ---
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056/20 "2014-10-22T00:05:51Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Found it - back in [May](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723826), with a fair amount of debate. Ah, I searched for “Zeppelin” and not “Zep.” I swear I did not intend to plagiarize that thread! 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-led-zeppelin-are-a-bunch-of-plagiarizers/702056.md?page=2)