# Wow! Money for kids and seniors embezzled into Air America! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369 "2005-07-27T06:31:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/21 "2005-07-27T15:01:29Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > True, true. But those facts are stacking up in a disturbing way. > > As it stands, a community center has loaned money largely derived from government grants to a private entity, falsifying documents to conceal this fact. This transaction was facilitated by the fact that the chairman of the private entity was the community center’s director of development. That individual subsequently left the business under a cloud. > > Which of these facts would you dispute? Do we know this for a fact? Cite? Where is the hard evidence? Was anyone charged with anything? (cough cough). Before this gets crazy, I better tell you I am just asking the same sort of questions and demanding the same evidence that would be demanded of me, in one of my “crusdades”. Other than that, in the overall scheme of things, is it really all that important? There are far bigger fish to fry right now. Rove (cough)AbuGhraib(cough)Libby(cough)War(cough). Compared to those things, this isn’t even out of the noise level. Like who cares. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/22 "2005-07-27T15:01:44Z")
Heh, the absolute joyousness of the thread title is hilarious. It’s like a kid seeing a bike under the Christmas tree. WOW! ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/23 "2005-07-27T15:11:27Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Heh, the absolute joyousness of the thread title is hilarious. It’s like a kid seeing a bike under the Christmas tree. WOW! Yeah, and the thread is like watching the same kid open the “bike” to find that his dad made him the bike out of bits he found in the garage including a sack of manure for a seat. Well, I think Fairly Oddparents is funny. ---
**Author:** ![boret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@boret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boret)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/24 "2005-07-27T15:20:05Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > The plot thickens. > > One of the activities of the community center in question is Camp Air America, which is a camp for the children of the community. It was named for, and presumably sponsored by, Air America. [This webpage for the community center](http://www.gloriawise.org/camphome.html) indicated that the Morning Sedition show will be raising money for the camp in the months of June and July. > > That would indicate to most people a charitable arrangement. But Air America owes money to the community center. Were listeners made aware of this debt when they were hit up for donations? I don’t think they were. I first heard about this a few weeks ago - while listening to Morning Sedition. The hosts explained the situation, apologized, and offered refunds to anyone who donated and felt they were misled in some way. As far as I know they are no longer soliciting or accepting donations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/25 "2005-07-27T15:53:06Z")
On the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club site, under the Camp Air America section, after a year of the scandal (and I still see the scandal as applicable only to Cohen) these partners still appear under the Camp Air America as contributors: > [@](#): > > Boys & Girls Club of America > Bronx Council on the Arts > J.E. & Z.B Butler Foundation > Cal Ripken Sr. Foundation > Child and Adult Care Food Program > Coca Cola > Common Cents New York > David Wells Foundation > Green Tree Foundation > Jean and Louis Dreyfus Foundation > Jewish Association for the Aging > Louis Calder Foundation > Marion Scott Real Estate, inc. > Microsoft Point being that many organizations, seeing the big picture, don’t consider Air America to be at fault here, particularly when Cohen was the guilty party. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/26 "2005-07-27T16:00:19Z")
Some Republican with impeccable credentials should head up a committee to investigate this horrendous corruption. Of course, Tom DeLay is a bit busy these days… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/27 "2005-07-27T16:04:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Point being that many organizations, seeing the big picture, don’t consider Air America to be at fault here, particularly when Cohen was the guilty party. Why are you insisting that Cohen was fired over this single incident? The man had overstated startup capital by five times what he actually had on hand, and regularly bounced checks during the network’s startup. There were plenty of reasons why he might have been let go. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/28 "2005-07-27T16:15:43Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why are you insisting that Cohen was fired over this single incident? The man had overstated startup capital by five times what he actually had on hand, and regularly bounced checks during the network’s startup. There were plenty of reasons why he might have been let go. Considering that, it doesn’t change the fact that the articles you quoted do mention the presure to quit was there for this reason too. Adding other real reasons does not help the position of the OP. And as \*\*boret \*\* mentioned, Air America already told their listeners, answering already to your “What obligation do they have to their listeners to come clean?” point. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/29 "2005-07-27T16:20:38Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Air America’s relative success] reminds me of a question [Matt Yglesias](http://yglesias.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/25/95843/4964) raised a couple days back: in an era where there are clearly more conservative gabfests on cable TV than there’s a market for (he notes the abysmal ratings of Tucker Carlson’s new show on MSNBC), how come cable programmers seem to think the market for conservative talk is about eight times as large as that for left-of-center talk? Because they’re doing their job: looking up one another’s asses. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/30 "2005-07-27T16:30:25Z")
Actually, MSNBC gave Phil Donahue a shot last year. He crashed and burned. The market for a liberal version of Limbaugh, et al, is just not there. I’m sure folks on that side of the political spectrum are passionate…they are just numerically inferior. That’s why Air America is having to resort to these sort of things to raise cash. If enough listeners gave a damn about them, they wouldn’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/31 "2005-07-27T16:40:25Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > We could expand the debate to talk about Air Americas viability in the marketplace and the reasons why it is obviously not being embraced by listeners…but I don’t expect much interest in that topic here. So, the message is “Air America is so weak as to be irrelevant, but WOW, we should be really really concerned about alleged embezzlement some guy there committed!” On other websites, I’ve seen right-wingers bring this issue up, explicitly saying that it will push the Rove scandal out of the news. Here’s hoping, eh **Mr. Moto**? :rolleyes: Better go back and get some new talking points. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/32 "2005-07-27T16:46:30Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > …I’m sure folks on that side of the political spectrum are passionate…they are just numerically inferior… Well, if they are “numerically inferior”, its only by the width of a butterfly’s butt whiskers. And, of course, if you want to measure by such uncomfortable yardsticks as GeeDub’s approval rating, they are actually numerically superior by a considerable margin. A margin that exceeds the most recent landslide avalanche of a mandate by about three to one. No doubt you have a different preference for statistical analysis. And “passionate”? If only. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/33 "2005-07-27T16:48:58Z")
“Wow!” is right! I’m as shocked as you are. That was a “Wow!” of shock because you expect better from the liberal media, right? :dubious: Seriously, **Mr. Moto** , this is definitely an issue that should be addressed and appears as though it has been or is being addressed as best it can be. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/34 "2005-07-27T16:51:36Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > On other websites, I’ve seen right-wingers bring this issue up, explicitly saying that it will push the Rove scandal out of the news. Here’s hoping, eh **Mr. Moto**? :rolleyes: Holy cow, the Rove scandal is finally ON the news? _turns on the TV_ “…missing… day 59… Holloway…freedom on the march in Aruba…_static_” Hrm, guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/35 "2005-07-27T16:55:13Z")
I was officially warned awhile ago for giving a misleading title to a thread, **Mr. Moto**. Your title seems far more misleading than mine was, given that you make an accusation of criminal activity which is wholly unsupported by the facts. It’s not enough to be polite in threads: you also must be fair-minded. In this case, there’s no evidence at all of Air America’s culpability in this matter: > [@](#): > > A second unidentified source stressed that Rosen never sought to profit personally from the reported loan that the Gloria Wise Club gave to Air America. The source emphasized that Rosen’s sole motive, even if it was a bit naïve, was to benefit the Gloria Wise Club with the interest that Air America would pay for its loan from the local club. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/36 "2005-07-27T17:00:36Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Actually, MSNBC gave Phil Donahue a shot last year. He crashed and burned. The market for a liberal version of Limbaugh, et al, is just not there. You are misleading by missing the context of the fall of Phil: > **[Media coverage of the Iraq War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq_media_coverage)** > > The 2003 invasion of Iraq involved unprecedented U.S. media coverage, especially cable news networks. > The most popular cable network in the United States for news on the war was Fox News, and had begun influencing other media outlets' coverage. Fox News is owned by Rupert Murdoch, a strong supporter of the war. On-screen during all live war coverage by Fox News was a waving flag animation in the upper left corner and the headline "Operation Iraqi Freedom" along the bottom. The network has shown ... > [@](#): > > MSNBC also brought the American flag back on screen and regularly ran a tribute called “America’s Bravest” which showed photographs sent by family members of troops deployed in Iraq. MSNBC also fired liberal Phil Donahue, a critic of Bush’s Iraq policy, a month before the invasion began and replaced his show with Iraq war coverage hosted by Keith Olbermann. Shortly after Donahue’s firing, MSNBC hired Michael Savage, a controversial conservative radio talk show host for a Saturday afternoon show. Although Donahue’s show had lower ratings than several shows on other networks, and most reports on its cancellation blamed poor ratings, **it was the highest-rated program on MSNBC’s struggling primetime lineup at the time of its cancellation**. During February “sweeps”, Donahue’s show averaged 446,000 viewers, compared to rival Connie Chung’s 985,000 on CNN and Bill O’Reilly’s 2.7 million on Fox News, according to Nielsen Media Research. > [@](#): > > I’m sure folks on that side of the political spectrum are passionate…they are just numerically inferior. That’s why Air America is having to resort to these sort of things to raise cash. If enough listeners gave a damn about them, they wouldn’t have to. I see it as a niche market and besides your contention of what Air America “did” in this case is not certain. One thing is clear to me: commentaries and discussions elsewhere, regarding the resignation on Cohen, then assumed the sudden end of Air America. Judging at least on the sponsors of AA in Phoenix (some are surprising indeed) they do have the legs to continue for a long time. And I have to say that when the right does turn up the criticism, it is because people are beginning to seek alternatives to the half-truths that are the element of right wing radio. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/37 "2005-07-27T17:02:57Z")
Nope, not misleading at all. I said the money was embezzled into Air America, not that Air America did the embezzling. If it was an illegal loan, and all indications are that it was, than I stand by that statement. If you have an issue with that, you know what to do. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/38 "2005-07-27T17:15:10Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > Holy cow, the Rove scandal is finally ON the news? > > _turns on the TV_ > > “…missing… day 59… Holloway…freedom on the march in Aruba…_static_” > > Hrm, guess not. Damn liberal media! But your funny point does have an interesting element IMO: while the mainstream is virtually ignoring it, the internet is not; and taking into account what \*\*Hentor \*\* said, it is obvious that the right is paying attention to alternative media, as the Downing Street minutes showed, it does take a while for the mainstream to catch up. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/39 "2005-07-27T17:33:36Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Nope, not misleading at all. I said the money was embezzled into Air America, not that Air America did the embezzling. > > If it was an illegal loan, and all indications are that it was, than I stand by that statement. > > If you have an issue with that, you know what to do. Your points (starting with the title) throughout the thread, have been of the fallacy of guilt by association: [http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html](http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html) It is even worse when one considers that, what is obvious to me, one of the groups that pressured for his resignation was Air America. as \*\*Hentor \*\* mentions the efforts of the right to Tu Quoque this to the leaker scandal, a warning should be mentioned: a resignation that in reality amounted to a firing, was the result in part of the “money for kids and seniors embezzlement” BEFORE the end of the official investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369/40 "2005-07-27T17:47:01Z")
Does Air America still have some of that community center’s money? That’s a legitimate question, since the association of Air America with this community center seems to be ongoing, long since the association of Air America with Mr. Cohen has ended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-money-for-kids-and-seniors-embezzled-into-air-america/314369.md?page=3)