# Wow... Ontario sucks. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064 "2003-10-02T04:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/21 "2003-10-03T04:04:09Z")
Cheesesteak: I was addressing the issue with the military ID; however, I’m fairly certain that it’s applicable to any ID one uses in an attempt to gain access to an establishment one is not lawfully permitted such access. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/22 "2003-10-03T13:02:27Z")
This is the thing that bugs me, and doesn’t seem to bother anyone else. Why is it a crime to present an unaltered ID clearly stating your age to a bouncer? In my book, you should be turned away from the establishment, and that’s it. I’m really trying hard to figure out what’s so reprehensible about presenting an ID to a place you’re not allowed to go. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/23 "2003-10-03T14:15:35Z")
I’m with you **Cheesesteak**. If he was stopped by the bouncer then he didn’t legally enter the establishment. Right? And he didn’t freudently misrepresent his age. sk8rixtx: 2 Ontario: 0 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/24 "2003-10-03T14:17:48Z")
Keerap. ‘‘fraudently’’ I know he wasn’t there hoping to see his mother. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/25 "2003-10-03T14:31:13Z")
Cheesesteak: My gues is that presenting the unaltered ID is an attempt to trick the checker into thinking an ID was presented that showed the person as being of the required age–something to do with an attempt to capitalize on the checker not catching the actual birthdate on the thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/26 "2003-10-03T14:54:02Z")
Looking for a theme song? How about [Ontario Sucks](http://www.gamersnook.com/blog/archives/001207.html) (sometimes also called “The Toronto Song”) by loopy Albertan band Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/27 "2003-10-03T15:23:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Cheesesteak: My gues is that presenting the unaltered ID is an attempt to trick the checker into thinking an ID was presented that showed the person as being of the required age–something to do with an attempt to capitalize on the checker not catching the actual birthdate on the thing. That is such a weak stretch, Monty. I’m with Cheesesteak on this one. How does NOT lying about your age, nor misrepresenting yourself of a certain age qualify as a violation? Simple ignorance in this situation certainly applies when not outwardly breaking the law-even though normally ignorance of the law would not be an excuse. Here in California, if you attempt to pass of an illegal/forged ID, you lose it. That I have no problem with. But seizure of an ID card presented with the best of intentions(I.E.-no fraud), is ridiculous. Hell, don’t they have signs up that say “UNDER XX AGE NOT ALLOWED”? Here, all drinking/stripping establishments have those signs up. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Triss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Triss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triss)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/28 "2003-10-03T15:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by CriticalMass_ > The bouncers and wait staff here in Ontario are disciples of the government’s heavy-handed control of liquor _snicker_ We are woefully backwards about alchohol in this province, it’s true. However, I was under the impression that last call is now 2:00 am, not that it’s much to brag about. Hey, at least they don’t hand out hair shirts at the club entrances anymore. Confiscating one’s ID is a ridiculous abuse of position, whether it be a cop or a bouncer. The only reasonable course, IMO, would have been to advise **sk8rixtx** of his error, wish him good evening and send him on his way. To be fair, blah, etc, not all bouncers are inflicted with the need to over-compensate for their tiny penii by being assholes. There are some decent ones in Ontario, just as there are some decent cops. I’m sorry for your trouble **sk8**. Please do come back when you’re 19 and give us another chance. We need all the drunken tourists’ dollars we can possibly get our SARS-infected hands on. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/29 "2003-10-03T15:54:04Z")
Oh for Pete’s sake… ‘‘fraudulently’’. The police department needs to be notified that one of their officers inappropriately confiscated a military ID and is in illegal possession of it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/30 "2003-10-03T17:23:11Z")
GaWd: The subterfuge is contained in the mere act of presenting something which one purports to be an identity card that establishes sufficient age. It’s like saying, “Let me in, I’m old enough & here’s proof.” I don’t see that as a weak stretch, or a stretch at all. lieu: The police officer is not maintaining possession of it. He’s supposed to return it to the purported issuing agency via the proper channels. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/31 "2003-10-03T17:42:18Z")
My point is he (police officer) shouldn’t have confiscated it in the first place. Yeah, returning it via the proper channels is what he’s suppossed to do but given the fact he didn’t do _what he was suppossed to do_ the first time, don’t you think a heated letter to his department chief might be in order? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/32 "2003-10-03T17:50:15Z")
Monty- Apparently, there aren’t signs claiming the required minimum age to enter. If an out-of-towner comes to the establishment, and there’s no properly posted minimum age, where’s the subterfuge? He didn’t say, “Hi, I’m 19, let me in”. He said “Here’s my identification”. If the minimum age to enter a specific bar is say(for examples’ sake), 28 and I go to enter thinking the minimum age is the standard 21, and there’s no minimum age posted on the door, have I, as a 27-year old male commited an act of subterfuge by presenting my supposedly valid ID? No, at least not so far as I can tell. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/33 "2003-10-03T18:51:16Z")
GaWd: I’m going with the “ignorance of the law is no excuse” bit. The law established a minimum age to enter a drinking establishment, did it not? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/34 "2003-10-03T19:02:25Z")
Monty, he didn’t enter the establishment, so what law did he break? Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but it’s not a crime in and of itself either. Should I get in trouble if I pull on the door handle of a closed business? Breaking and entering is illegal, right? The business is closed and I’m trying to get in, so that’s a crime. Except, I just made a mistake about the hours they do business. ---
**Author:** ![CritcalMass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b77776/32.png) [@CritcalMass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CritcalMass)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/35 "2003-10-03T19:28:53Z")
I’m with the camp that says the author of the OP got fucked. Did you get the cop’s badge number? I think its worth writing in a complaint, I can say with almost a 100% certainty all police departments in this province are required to investigate any and all complaints regarding a police officer. If your military Identifications are anything like ours they are government documents and the property of your armed forces and/or federal government. The bouncer and cop had no right to confiscate your I.D for the same reason they can’t confiscate your passport. And what if he confiscated your passport for the same bogus reason and you needed it to get back into the U.S., what then? If you really have an axe to grind you should cc the letter to the U.S. embassy in Ottawa. Nothing may come of it but at least you’ll put some heat on the cop. Unfortunately, your case of a teenager trying to get into a titty bar doesn’t exactly lend itself to credibility even though it was under the best of intentions. BTW, Triss I know cut off time in Ontario is now 2 am, my post says “until recently cut-off time was 1 am”. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/36 "2003-10-03T19:42:00Z")
Monty, I’m not arguing whether ignorance of the law is an excuse or not-however, ignorance of the law does not equate subterfuge. At least, not in this case, and not with regards to at least U.S. law if not Canadian law as well. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/37 "2003-10-03T19:44:58Z")
I love Ontario. Love it. Every time I cross the border, I feel great! But after a few days, I can’t wait to get back to the states. So I guess it’s a great place to visit, maybe not so great to live. But it certainly doesn’t suck. ---
**Author:** ![Vriggs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@Vriggs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vriggs)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/38 "2003-10-04T01:44:05Z")
You guys are assuming the OP is being honest. Sounds more like he didn’t get to see some pink titty and got mad. I live in Ontario and have had no problems such as that. So one little 18 year old, booze deprived '“sk8r”-boy doesn’t get what he wants and 1. the strip club bouncer and 2. the police all conspire against the good, honest lad. Smells fishy to me. P.s. the legal drinking age in Ontario has been 19 for as long as I can remember. Still better than 21. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/39 "2003-10-04T03:44:39Z")
_Liquor Licence Act, R.S.O. 1990, CHAPTER L.19 [http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90l19\_e.htm#P514\_46299](http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90l19_e.htm#P514_46299)_ > [@](#): > > \*\* > 30 (8) No person under nineteen years of age shall have, consume, attempt to purchase, purchase or otherwise obtain liquor. > > 30 (10) No person under nineteen years of age shall enter or remain on premises in which the sale of liquor is authorized if the person knows that a condition of the licence or permit for the premises prohibits the entry of persons under nineteen years of age. > > 47 (1) A police officer may seize any thing, including liquor, if, > > (a) he or she reasonably believes that the thing will afford evidence of an offence under this Act; > > (b) he or she reasonably believes that, > > (i) the thing was used or is being used in connection with the commission of an offence under this Act, and > > (ii) unless the thing is seized it is likely that it would continue to be used or would be used again in the commission of an offence under this Act; or > > © he or she reasonably believes that the thing is proceeds from the commission of an offence under this Act. 1994, c. 37, s. 18 (1). > (2) The Ontario Court of Justice may, upon the application of any person made within thirty days of a seizure under subsection (1) or (1.1), order that the things seized be restored forthwith to the applicant if the court is satisfied that, > > (a) the applicant is entitled to possession of the things seized; > > (b) the things seized are not required as evidence in any proceeding; > > © continued detention of the things seized is not necessary to prevent the commission of an offence; and > > (d) it is unlikely that the things will be forfeited on conviction under subsection (5). > (3) If the court is satisfied that an applicant under subsection (2) is entitled to possession of the things seized but is not satisfied as to all of the matters mentioned in clauses (2) (b), © and (d), it shall order that the things seized be restored to the applicant, > > (a) upon the expiration of three months from the date of the seizure, if no proceeding in respect of an offence has been commenced; or > > (b) upon the final conclusion of any such proceeding. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![sk8rixtx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@sk8rixtx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sk8rixtx)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064/40 "2003-10-04T19:15:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vriggs \* > \*\*You guys are assuming the OP is being honest. > Sounds more like he didn’t get to see some pink titty and got mad. > \*\* Yea’, because it just makes sense to lie to complete strangers on message boards. Though I will state for the record that Ontario is a pretty nice place. I like your Hard Rock Cafe, and the Skylon Tower is interesting. Other than that I didn’t see a single sign saying that 19 was the legal age to partake in events such as going to the strip club or drinking. Maybe they’re all over the place and I was just too dumb to notice. If I’d have known, I wouldn’t have tried. Trust me, I’d rather just get bombed with my friends in a hotel room, cheaper than going to a bar. Its just the experience. Tell me you’ve never done anything for the experience of it. When you first turned 21, or realized that you could atleast pass for 21, don’t tell me you didn’t go to the bar. Why _did_ you go to the bar? Why didn’t you just stay home and drink? Maybe it wasn’t about drinking in the first place. Did anyone think about that? Has anyone actually taken my perspective into things? Do you remember what it was like to be my age or are you too old? You twenty/thirty/fourty/even fifty/and maybe sixty - somethings can’t possibly forget what it was like to be my age. You can’t. Flame me for speaking my mind, but atleast I spoke it. I’m done. I got my answers from the people in the thread who responded not to take sides, but to present me with some helpful facts (Gorsnak, Monty, CritcalMass, and… Muffin). Case closed. Thank you, -little 18 year old, booze deprived “'sk8r”-boy (I’ll admit, this struck a nerve) Oh gosh, _that’s_ funny. That’s really funny. Do, do you write your own material? Do you? Because that is soooo fresh. “‘sk8r’ - boy”. Y’know, no one has ever made that joke before. Yep. You’re the first. I’ve never heard anyone reference that outside the song before. Because that’s what she says in the song, right? Isn’t it? “Sk8r boy”? And yet you’ve taken that, and used it out of context to insult me in this everyday situation(message board post). God, what a clever, smart person you must be. To come up with a joke like that all by yourself. Man, that’s so fresh too. Any Bush jokes you want to throw at me as long as we’re hitting these phenomena at the hight of their popularity? Because I’m here. God you’re soooo funny. Thought I’d add a little Stewie Griffin in this post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-ontario-sucks/205064.md?page=3)