# WOW! Romney says he paid at least 13%. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745 "2012-08-17T03:49:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/1 "2012-08-17T03:49:57Z")
Isn’t that impressive! 13% (which is probably a lie because he refuses to prove it). That is an unbelievable tax burden for a guy that is sitting on his ass watching the money flow in. Romney is a poster child for why the “job creators” (should it read “outsourcers”) need relief from the burdensome federal income tax. They don’t have enough money and need more to outsource more jobs. Why doesn’t everyone get this concept? If you are above the poverty level did you pay more than 13% in federal income taxes? I am far above the poverty level and have been paying about 50% in city, state and federal income taxes. I consider it the cost of doing business and thriving in a country that makes it possible to do that. The more taxes I pay the wealthier I get. As my banker told me when I needed cash to pay the tax bill, “That’s a good problem to have.” Fuck Romney, his greedy fucked-up, ultra-rich supporters who are addicted to avarice and can never have enough money, and the people that they have duped into thinking that by making the ultra-rich more rich at their expense that they are part of the in-crowd. Can this whole scenario get any more bizarre? These greedy assholes have a significant percentage of the population, who are struggling, thinking that they are working in the best interest of Romney & Co. while they are just getting ripping off. Oh yeah, it’s not about fiscal responsibility. Gay marriage and freedom of choice for women are the most important issues. If we can get rid of those terrible things then all the economic inequities will go away. Yea, right. :rolleyes::mad: ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/2 "2012-08-17T03:57:59Z")
Pit OP’s without links make baby Jesus cry. A cursory glance reveals he said it certainly was never BELOW 13%… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/3 "2012-08-17T04:12:58Z")
Here’s what _The Wire_ creator David Simon [had to say](http://davidsimon.com/mitt-romney-paid-taxes-at-a-rate-of-at-least-13-percent-and-hes-proud-to-say-so/): > [@](#): > > Can we stand back and pause a short minute to take in the spectacle of a man who wants to be President of The United States, who wants us to seriously regard him as a paragon of the American civic ideal, declaiming proudly and in public that he has paid his taxes at a third of the rate normally associated with gentlemen of his economic benefit. > > Stunning. > > Am I supposed to congratulate this man? Thank him for his good citizenship? Compliment him for being clever enough to arm himself with enough tax lawyers so that he could legally minimize his obligations? > > Thirteen percent. The last time I paid taxes at that rate, I believe I might still have been in college. If not, it was my first couple years as a newspaper reporter. Since then, the paychecks have been just fine, thanks, and I don’t see any reason not to pay at the rate appropriate to my earnings, given that I’m writing the check to the same government that provided the economic environment that allowed for such incomes. > > I can’t get over the absurdity of this moment, honestly: Hey, I never paid less than thirteen percent. I swear. And no, you can’t examine my tax returns in any more detail. But I promise you all, my fellow American citizens, I never once slipped to single digits. I’m just not that kind of guy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/4 "2012-08-17T04:14:06Z")
I, for one, am greatly reassured by the fact that Romney pays _almost_ as much as I do on my grocery store wages. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/5 "2012-08-17T04:19:33Z")
To be honest, I’m not too sure why people are hopped up over this. After all, don’t we want a President who understands tax policy? 😉 Of course, the truly difficult part for Romney is that, one year, he was paying Social Security taxes on his income all the way into the 4th week of January. Poor guy. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/6 "2012-08-17T04:25:44Z")
He doesn’t say what kind of taxes he pays. Even if the 13% figure is true, he may not have paid any income taxes. He might be including state taxes, real estate taxes, and sales taxes in that. And according to his wife he’s not going to release any more tax forms. What a little dipshit to send his wife out to tell that story. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/7 "2012-08-17T04:28:19Z")
I might have formed a negative opinion had the number been any less than 13%. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/8 "2012-08-17T04:32:06Z")
Romney’s problem is he thinks he’s the solution instead of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/9 "2012-08-17T04:44:03Z")
**LavenderBlue** , that’s a great line. Mind if I steal it? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/10 "2012-08-17T04:50:30Z")
My favorite is the way he adds his tithe to the Mormon Church to his taxes. [http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/08/16/romney-paid-13-tax-rate-over-last-10-years/](http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/08/16/romney-paid-13-tax-rate-over-last-10-years/) > [@](#): > > Romney also said that when charitable donations were taken into account, his tax rate has been above 20 percent. He is strong in the stupid. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/11 "2012-08-17T04:58:26Z")
Its says “charitable donations” but I’m not totally sure that “tithing” falls under that definition. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/12 "2012-08-17T04:59:27Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > **LavenderBlue** , that’s a great line. Mind if I steal it? _blush_ Yeah sure. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/13 "2012-08-17T05:02:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > He doesn’t say what kind of taxes he pays. Even if the 13% figure is true, he may not have paid any income taxes. He might be including state taxes, real estate taxes, and sales taxes in that. And according to his wife he’s not going to release any more tax forms. What a little dipshit to send his wife out to tell that story. The other explanation is: 13% of WHAT exactly? Does he mean that he paid 13% on his _taxable income_? Or 13% on his adjusted gross income (which would be what folks would assume). I’m betting that he meant (but did not say) that the 13% was on his taxable income. And I’m willing to bet that after some creative deductions, his taxable income in previous years was relatively small. And that his % tax on his adjusted gross income was much less than 13%. He does not want us to see the interesting (and legal) deductions he took in the past, which made the actual amount of tax he paid much much less. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/14 "2012-08-17T05:21:09Z")
Since some (most?) of his wealth is in blind trusts and as far as we know in offshore tax havens, how do we know the basis of the 13%? I’d take a wild guess that we all income is considered, he’s paying less than 13%. If only there were a way to find out… ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/15 "2012-08-17T12:20:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its says “charitable donations” but I’m not totally sure that “tithing” falls under that definition. It does if it includes “worshipping at the feet of Baal in an attempt to sell one’s soul for worldly power”. It’s a small, oft-overlooked tax clause, but its in there. He’s not the first to invoke it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/16 "2012-08-17T13:19:28Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Isn’t that impressive! 13% (which is probably a lie because he refuses to prove it). That is an unbelievable tax burden for a guy that is sitting on his ass watching the money flow in. As I noted on another thread, the really interesting point is that Mitt gave this figure _knowing that he could pull any old number out of his ass_ (since he refuses to show the evidence). He knows that that’s about the highest tax rate someone in his class could even realistically _claim_ to be paying, and he knows we know, and he says “Suck it, losers!” ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/17 "2012-08-17T13:31:00Z")
I’m posting the 17th or so response here and I bet that taking my tax bill for the last five years and the tax bills of all the others who have posted before and adding them up…still doesn’t equal up to the bill that represented 13% of Romney’s income for a year. The guy has given you so many legitimate reasons for picking on him. I can’t understand whey anyone would try to chew on him for the fact that he understands tax laws and uses them to his advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/18 "2012-08-17T13:44:23Z")
Nobody expects him to pay more tax than the law requires. He is the poster child for exceedingly rich people who pay an extremely low tax rate, and STILL THINK that rich people are overtaxed. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/19 "2012-08-17T13:51:05Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > The guy has given you so many legitimate reasons for picking on him. I can’t understand whey anyone would try to chew on him for the fact that he understands tax laws and uses them to his advantage. In part because one of the drums that right-wing politicians and media have been banging over the last year was the one that the bottom 50% weren’t paying their “fair share” of taxes and that they needed to have some “skin in the game” (remember that phrase?). Well those “parasites” (as some dubbed them) were legally abiding by the same tax laws, yet somehow their perceived avoidance of tax (which is driven in essence by the fact that they don’t HAVE the money to pay) is seen as bad but that of people like Romney (who does have the money) is seen as a virtue. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/20 "2012-08-17T13:58:10Z")
Despite this tempest over his tax rate, I have no doubt that Romney is hiding something worse, or else he’s even stupider than he sounds. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745.md?page=2)