# WOW! Romney says he paid at least 13%. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745 "2012-08-17T03:49:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/61 "2012-08-17T17:07:19Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > ? > > Now, how do I know all this? Simple - Romney’s tax returns are up on his website, where anyone with common sense could go find them instead of spouting bullshit about how Romney “refuses to prove it”. Those are two returns from years where he knew he was running for president. So what? He’s slightly less stupid than he could be, but that’s no reason to believe what he says. What would anybody be saying about Obama right now if he refuse to release his tax returns? Also what **Lobohan** said. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/62 "2012-08-17T17:20:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How are we supposed to know whether it’s legal or not if he doesn’t release the returns. The same way his wife knows there’s nothing at all wrong with his returns, and that releasing his returns would just give ammo to the opposition, despite the fact that she professes not to have seen them either. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/63 "2012-08-17T17:21:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Those are two returns from years where he knew he was running for president. So what? He’s slightly less stupid than he could be, **but that’s no reason to believe what he says.** What would anybody be saying about Obama right now if he refuse to release his tax returns? Really? No reason to believe that the returns he filed with the [del]Gestapo[/del] IRS, under penalty of perjury, are not factual and accurate? If they weren’t, the IRS would be all over him like white on rice and you know it. > [@](#): > > Also what **Lobohan** said. I don’t know what Lobohan said, and I don’t care. I’ve had him on ignore for some time now. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/64 "2012-08-17T17:21:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Simple - Romney’s tax returns are up on his website Link to his 2009 return, plz? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/65 "2012-08-17T17:26:25Z")
You know why he should release his tax returns, because Romney’s financial interests may have a direct effect on his policy decisions and even on areas of National Security. Romney has money tied up in all sorts of overseas accounts, businesses and firms. I actually want to know, as a person potentially hiring Romney (not really, I won’t vote for the guy), what kind of fiscal entanglements he is involved in that may compromise his ability to govern. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/66 "2012-08-17T17:26:26Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? No reason to believe that the returns he filed with the [del]Gestapo[/del] IRS, under penalty of perjury, are not factual and accurate? If they weren’t, the IRS would be all over him like white on rice and you know it. > > I don’t know what Lobohan said, and I don’t care. I’ve had him on ignore for some time now. ☹ All those insults… like tears in the rain… ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/67 "2012-08-17T17:31:04Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > ☹ > > All those insults… like tears in the rain… Time to die. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/68 "2012-08-17T17:35:12Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Oh, I guess it’s your idiocy that makes you look like an idiot. Carry on. The question you’re avoiding is, if Obama put forth a plan that would fix the tax code and make it serve America better, why would you say that that Democrat-controlled other two branches of government would vote against it. Why do you think they hate America? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/69 "2012-08-17T17:36:12Z")
You know what surprises me most about this whole Romney tax thing? That someone hasn’t somehow leaked a copy of them. I mean, c’mon, there’s a lot of hands on these returns: Mitt, his wife, his CPA firm (I’m sure they don’t use one guy), all of his lawyers, his entire campaign, a bunch of folks on McCain’s team, and then the entire IRS. In today’s day and age, it genuinely surprises me that some hacker hasn’t infiltrated the computers of any of those groups and just stolen his tax returns. I mean, yes, it’d be a major crime. . . but that’s never stopped people when it comes to these things before. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/70 "2012-08-17T17:37:13Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I don’t know what Lobohan said, and I don’t care. I’ve had him on ignore for some time now. How’d he get so lucky? I certainly hope I’m on your ignore as well. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/71 "2012-08-17T17:40:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The question you’re avoiding is, if Obama put forth a plan that would fix the tax code and make it serve America better, why would you say that that Democrat-controlled other two branches of government would vote against it. Why do you think they hate America? Because, stupid, for the 15 weeks or so they had 60 votes, we were still in recession, and changing the tax laws at the time would probably have been a bad idea. Also, you might want to consider that a half dozen of those votes were very conservative Democrats, who wouldn’t greenlight any sort of large change, so with the Republicans auto filibustering everything he didn’t have the votes. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/72 "2012-08-17T17:53:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t do anything illegal on his tax returns. Me too. His crime is complaining about “high taxes” and advocating cutting rates for rich people. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/73 "2012-08-17T18:13:02Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? No reason to believe that the returns he filed with the [del]Gestapo[/del] IRS, under penalty of perjury, are not factual and accurate? If they weren’t, the IRS would be all over him like white on rice and you know it. You’re confusing the notion that he did nothing criminal with the notion that he did nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/74 "2012-08-17T18:13:03Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? No reason to believe that the returns he filed with the [del]Gestapo[/del] IRS, under penalty of perjury, are not factual and accurate? If they weren’t, the IRS would be all over him like white on rice and you know it. Wait, you still think this is about the legality of his tax returns? Well isn’t that special! ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/75 "2012-08-17T18:19:15Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Link to his 2009 return, plz? I’m more amused by the plural “returns”, personally. If you’re feeling generous, he’s released one. Not even the IRS has 2011 yet – all he shows is his own estimates – and 2010 is not formally complete. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/76 "2012-08-17T18:23:04Z")
Wow. I’m sure his tax returns are completely legal. I’m sure all the advantages he took to minimize the tax he paid were things he was legally entitled to take, and it’s probably relatively above-board. That’s not the point. The point is that if folks see his tax returns, they’ll go “Wow! He paid so little! And it’s _legal_ for him to pay so little, while I’m stuck paying 30% of my own income? Fuck that! I want to elect the President and Congresscritters who will change the tax code so that doesn’t happen any more!” It’s not about what’s legal or illegal, but about what’s appropriate. It’s about motivating the public to get the laws changed so that it’s no longer legal to pay so little in the future. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/77 "2012-08-17T18:35:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? No reason to believe that the returns he filed with the [del]Gestapo[/del] IRS, under penalty of perjury, are not factual and accurate? If they weren’t, the IRS would be all over him like white on rice and you know it. Right, but that was the whole point of the FBAR Amnesty program though: you acknowledged you broke the law, paid a fine, and the IRS didn’t come after you for breaking the law. They gave you a chance to rat yourself out before they found you, caught you, and prosecuted you. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/78 "2012-08-17T18:37:51Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > You know what surprises me most about this whole Romney tax thing? That someone hasn’t somehow leaked a copy of them. I mean, c’mon, there’s a lot of hands on these returns: Mitt, his wife, his CPA firm (I’m sure they don’t use one guy), all of his lawyers, his entire campaign, a bunch of folks on McCain’s team, and then the entire IRS. > > In today’s day and age, it genuinely surprises me that some hacker hasn’t infiltrated the computers of any of those groups and just stolen his tax returns. I mean, yes, it’d be a major crime. . . but that’s never stopped people when it comes to these things before. They were leaked. Harry Reid told us what’s in them. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/79 "2012-08-17T18:39:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They were leaked. Harry Reid told us what’s in them. No he didn’t. he told us what someone told him. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/80 "2012-08-17T18:43:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They were leaked. Harry Reid told us what’s in them. I mean actual copies leaked out, not just what is effectively hearsay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745.md?page=5)