# WOW! Romney says he paid at least 13%. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745 "2012-08-17T03:49:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/141 "2012-08-18T11:38:08Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > They both FUCKING SUCK! [Balance fallacy](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Balance_fallacy). One side is willing to [cut expenditure and increase taxes](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/us/politics/obama-plan-to-cut-deficit-will-trim-spending.html?_r=1), the other side wants to cut expenditure and cut taxes. The side that is willing to raise taxes is headed by a President already paying a ~30% tax rate. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/142 "2012-08-18T12:51:59Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE FUCKING ISSUES!!! You mean issues like the deficit and debt? Issues like whether or not the Bush Tax Cuts should be allowed to expire and for whom? Stuff like that? 'Cause, ya know, this conversation is directly relevant to _those_ issues and tangential to a whole ton of other issues. Pretty much everything government does (or doesn’t do) is about money and right now government doesn’t have enough money to do the things we’ve asked it to do. So, we either have to cut the shit out of government (and good luck getting R/R to tell you _exactly_ what they will cut) or raise more revenue. Hence the debate about tax policy. And it is germane to the discussion to ask a major player in tax policy discussion what he paid in taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/143 "2012-08-18T13:34:35Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And it is germane to the discussion to ask a major player in tax policy discussion what he paid in taxes. … And how much money he, personally, stands to realize as a result of the tax changes he’s proposing. Last I heard, if Romney gets the tax rate he wants, he’d save around $5 million per year- dwarfing the $400k presidential salary. If that’s not a conflict of interest, I’m not sure what is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/144 "2012-08-18T16:34:34Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > Luci, you struck me as being a bit disconcerted after hearing that of the top ten richest Congresscriiters seven of them were dems. I didn’t know that but certainly you didn’t. > > Not a witty comeback or refutation. Seemed to knock you off your usual game. I do not suffer under the delusion that anyone with a “D” after their name is by definition a progressive. The rich and powerful own one political party and a half-interest in the other. I am not a Democrat, I am on the conservative wing of the extreme left. If you crave a reason to sneer, I suggest you find something else. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/145 "2012-08-18T17:08:53Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > … And how much money he, personally, stands to realize as a result of the tax changes he’s proposing. Last I heard, if Romney gets the tax rate he wants, he’d save around $5 million per year- dwarfing the $400k presidential salary. > > If that’s not a conflict of interest, I’m not sure what is. As near as I can tell, they don’t think there is a conflict. They seem to really believe that enriching themselves is in the best interest of the nation. I mean, just think of all the jobs he’ll create with that money. It’s really pretty noble of him to make make such a sacrifice, and you don’t even appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/146 "2012-08-18T17:27:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Got a problem with that? Work to get the 16th Amendment repealed and the Fair Tax implemented. Otherwise, shut the fuck up. He paid what he was legally required to. And gee, how would one _work_ to get a fairer tax code? If only there were a way we Americans could get together and vote for someone who has our best interests at heart. Hell, I’d even be willing to do this on a Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/147 "2012-08-18T17:33:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > He paid what he was legally required to. That’s a perfect argument for not charging him with tax evasion. That’s not even close to an argument that he is qualified to be president. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/148 "2012-08-18T18:12:23Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > Luci, you struck me as being a bit disconcerted after hearing that of the top ten richest Congresscriiters seven of them were dems. I didn’t know that but certainly you didn’t. You know, personally? I don’t have anything against rich people. I don’t want to scourge the country of anyone making over $1 mil. Many of them earned it and earned the comfortable life that comes with it. What bothers me is when some of those rich people want to destabilize the country simply so they can be even more rich. Those particular rich people, that subset, are rich fucks. We poor simpletons who barely earn a living wage have to give up large chunks of our income just so those rich fucks only have to give us one drop or none from their bucket instead of the usual three or four. Romney happens to be the poster child for those rich fucks. Like **Farmer Jane** said, he could pay 50% of his total wealth in taxes and still have more money than most people and way more money than he needs to live a wealthy life. Instead, he paid 13% in taxes and wants to pay even less, and he happens to be in a position to force the issue if he wins in November. He’s got a lot of buddies in the same boat, so it’s not just Romney’s money that the US needs, it’s all the rich fucks’ money. There may be plenty of rich Democrats, but they’re less likely to be rich fucks. They understand that tax cuts for the rich are unhealthy, and they’re not opposed to potentially raising the tax rates on the rich, including themselves, if it means a stronger country. Because guess what? Even if they paid the top marginal rate of 35%, even if we hiked the top rates up to 50%, _they’ll still be rich_. So I hope your false equivocation gave you a nice fuzzy tingly sense of smug superiority, because that’s all it does. Simpering about how bad both sides are just makes you look stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/149 "2012-08-18T19:50:33Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > He did nothing criminal. He did nothing wrong. > > You want him and other to pay more? Fine. Get all over your Congresscritters and work to get the 16th Amendment repealed and the Fair Tax implemented. In case anyone’s curious what it is: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax) > [@](#): > > The FairTax is a tax reform proposal for the federal government of the United States that would replace all federal income taxes (including the alternative minimum tax, corporate income taxes, and capital gains taxes), payroll taxes (including Social Security and Medicare taxes), gift taxes, and estate taxes with a single broad national consumption tax on retail sales. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/150 "2012-08-18T19:59:39Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > If Romney had released them all, there would just be grief about his cash flow! It doesn’t matter. We were also on Teresa Heinz to release her returns and it took her awhile. When did Teresa Heinz run for president? ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/151 "2012-08-18T20:49:48Z")
Pardon me, I’m sure it’s been covered already, but exactly which form should I file to ADD A FUCKING GRATUITY TO MY FUCKING TAX OBLIGATION? I’ve been working and paying taxes since I was 15, but I’ve only ever been interested in paying what I ACTUALLY OWE. Now I guess I have to pay 50% to keep up with the joneses or “Do What’s Right” or something instead of paying the CORRECT amount. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/152 "2012-08-18T20:59:01Z")
> [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#): > > Pardon me, I’m sure it’s been covered already, but exactly which form should I file to ADD A FUCKING GRATUITY TO MY FUCKING TAX OBLIGATION? I’ve been working and paying taxes since I was 15, but I’ve only ever been interested in paying what I ACTUALLY OWE. Now I guess I have to pay 50% to keep up with the joneses or “Do What’s Right” or something instead of paying the CORRECT amount. No, just don’t run for president on a platform alleging the rich pay too much in taxes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/153 "2012-08-18T22:39:49Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No, just don’t run for president on a platform alleging the rich pay too much in taxes. I think it’s important to differentiate between “the rich”, who do pay plenty of taxes, and “the super-rich”, like Romney, who get ridiculously favorable tax treatment in the current code. We can argue about tweaking the tax code a few percent on the “the rich”, and they’ll pay a bit more, but it’s the type of favorable treatment that “carried interest” gets that allows equity manager like Romney to pay the relatively low rates they do. And Romney doesn’t want to change that, which is what irks me. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/154 "2012-08-18T22:45:54Z")
> [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#): > > Pardon me, I’m sure it’s been covered already, but exactly which form should I file to ADD A FUCKING GRATUITY TO MY FUCKING TAX OBLIGATION? I’ve been working and paying taxes since I was 15, but I’ve only ever been interested in paying what I ACTUALLY OWE. Now I guess I have to pay 50% to keep up with the joneses or “Do What’s Right” or something instead of paying the CORRECT amount. Actually, I think there is a Self-Righteous Douchebag form (1174, if I’m not mistaken) that should cover your exact situation. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/155 "2012-08-18T23:30:47Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Romney happens to be the poster child for those rich fucks. Like **Farmer Jane** said, he could pay 50% of his total wealth in taxes and still have more money than most people and way more money than he needs to live a wealthy life. Instead, he paid 13% in taxes and wants to pay even less, and he happens to be in a position to force the issue if he wins in November. He’s got a lot of buddies in the same boat, so it’s not just Romney’s money that the US needs, it’s all the rich fucks’ money. > > \*\*There may be plenty of rich Democrats, but they’re less likely to be rich fucks. \*\*They understand that tax cuts for the rich are unhealthy, and they’re not opposed to potentially raising the tax rates on the rich, including themselves, if it means a stronger country. Because guess what? Even if they paid the top marginal rate of 35%, even if we hiked the top rates up to 50%, _they’ll still be rich_. Here’s my issue: - This conversation is turning into, “He’s rich, so he’s a crony and a THIEF and shouldn’t be the Poor People’s President!” Er, on what evidence? - We don’t need his tax returns to know he’s mega-loaded or what he stands for And: - Do we know the incomes of Democrats versus Republicans? I always thought that Democrats had higher incomes (typically) across the voting board - Do we know what the top richest Democrats in government favor in regards to taxes? Has there been a study on it? Finally: - Are we asking Nancy Pelosi to release her tax records so we can “check” to see if she’s a “criminal”? Of course not. > [@Frostillicus](#): > > When did Teresa Heinz run for president? Does it matter? Her financials are in Kerry’s interests - look at that boat fiasco. It was owned by one of her companies and he parked it in RI to avoid taxes. I personally didn’t think it was fair for my “side” (Dean) to bitch about their taxes and her funds but it was just part of the game. I still didn’t think it was fair for Republicans to do it in 2004, either. I also recall everyone demanding Cindy McCain’s tax returns. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/156 "2012-08-18T23:34:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s important to differentiate between “the rich”, who do pay plenty of taxes, and “the super-rich”, like Romney, who get ridiculously favorable tax treatment in the current code. We can argue about tweaking the tax code a few percent on the “the rich”, and they’ll pay a bit more, but it’s the type of favorable treatment that “carried interest” gets that allows equity manager like Romney to pay the relatively low rates they do. And Romney doesn’t want to change that, which is what irks me. That’s certainly reasonable, but his wealth is no secret so why are his returns necessary to make that call? The public knows how he got his wealth! You know what makes me angrier? The fact that Romney wants to cut [PBS](http://www.deadline.com/2012/08/mitt-romney-promises-to-cut-public-broadcastings-federal-subsidies/), his position on healthcare, his ideas about education, his ideas about wealth in America. NOT how much he paid in taxes. Any areshole who took Accounting 101 or reads the paper or pays his own taxes KNOWS he didn’t pay much relative to income, but he did pay a large portion in dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/157 "2012-08-18T23:48:40Z")
> [@digs](#): > > The last time I saw blind worship like this, it was from _ **Starving Artist** _. He was defending Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky. > > I wonder if Clothy’ll feel any pangs of conscience if he, too, has to eat his words… Blind worship? I stated facts, pure and simple. Of course, to the average liberal mentality, that counts as blind worship. Facts are few and far between around here. There’s just liberal bullshit flying through the air like a swarm of mosquitoes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/158 "2012-08-19T00:01:26Z")
If you choose to withdraw yourself from our company, we will try to understand. It will be hard, at first, of course, but with time… ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/159 "2012-08-19T00:04:40Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Actually, I think there is a Self-Righteous Douchebag form (1174, if I’m not mistaken) that should cover your exact situation. I’ll ask my tax guy about it. I hope you’re not pulling my leg! I want to do what’s right, not what’s legal! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/160 "2012-08-19T00:17:05Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Here’s my issue: > > - This conversation is turning into, “He’s rich, so he’s a crony and a THIEF and shouldn’t be the Poor People’s President!” Er, on what evidence? That’s a stupid issue, because it’s not true. You twit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745.md?page=9)