# WOW! Romney says he paid at least 13%. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745 "2012-08-17T03:49:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/161 "2012-08-19T00:31:10Z")
I said… > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Here’s my issue: > > - This conversation is turning into, “He’s rich, so he’s a crony and a THIEF and shouldn’t be the Poor People’s President!” Er, on what evidence? To which **Bosstone** replied… > [@Bosstone](#): > > That’s a stupid issue, because it’s not true. You twit. :dubious: I must’ve been reading the wrong thread! > [@TriPolar](#): > > Despite this tempest over his tax rate, I have no doubt that Romney is hiding something worse, or else he’s even stupider than he sounds. > [@AlienVessels](#): > > It seems within the bounds of plausibility that Romney took advantage of the 2009 Tax amnesty program to avoid criminal prosecution for non-disclosed offshore accounts. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I can’t begin to guess the exact shape of what that might be, but the 2009 amnesty on earnings from certain formerly-illegal off-shore tax havens is the obvious first thing to wonder about, particularly since the forms he left out of his otherwise-released 2010 return also had to do with off-shore accounts. Did he apply for that amnesty and get it, figuring he could stonewall on ever releasing his 2009 returns without paying an electoral price, just as he’s done successfully in the past? I dunno, maybe. Maybe there’s nothing anywhere any worse than what he’s already released. But if that’s the case, then at this point he must be the stupidest candidate ever to run for high office in my life time, because the longer he continues to refuse what looks like an entirely reasonable request for more returns, the more it looks like he does in fact have something to hide. > [@TriPolar](#): > > How are we supposed to know whether it’s legal or not if he doesn’t release the returns. We don’t even know what **it** is. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t do anything illegal on his tax returns. > [@magellan01](#): > > The natural thing to do is to assume that since he’s not in jail or under investigation that he did nothing illegal. No? > [@AlienVessels](#): > > Not if he took advantage of the amnesty. > [@Bosstone](#): > > Wow. > > I’m sure his tax returns are completely legal. I’m sure all the advantages he took to minimize the tax he paid were things he was legally entitled to take, and it’s probably relatively above-board. > > That’s not the point. > [@TriPolar](#): > > They were leaked. Harry Reid told us what’s in them. > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > No he didn’t. he told us what someone told him. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I mean actual copies leaked out, not just what is effectively hearsay. > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I paid a negative tax rate. > > I don’t care if people are rich and run for office. I really don’t - that’s why I supported millionaire [Jared Polis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Polis). I care about people’s politics. Romney’s America isn’t my America, but for fuck’s sake, lay off the tax thing already. It makes liberals sound whiny and jealous. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I hear that Romney has been funding polygamist Mormon splinter groups for the past decade. > [@Klaatu](#): > > Oh wait. Are you suggesting that Romney could be a felon? > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Congress does the bidding of really rich people like Romney. They tell congress what to do and congress does it. We still have no idea what Romney actually did. He won’t tell us. As others have pointed out he could have qualified for a tax amnesty where the IRS excused his crimes. We don’t know. > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I hope your research is more thorough than this. Egads…all the things _ **Romney Could Have Done!!!** _ > [@elucidator](#): > > I guess I don’t much care if Congressgits are rich, so long as they were rich when they got there. If they amass millions of bucks while working for me for $165K/yr I’m inclined to be bit pissy about it. (I hope this poster is suspicious of Reid, who got rich while being in office!) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/162 "2012-08-19T00:39:41Z")
**Farmer** , I’m not a Democrat. Fronting me with Dem hypocrisy will get at most the slightest raising of a Vulcanesque eyebrow. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/163 "2012-08-19T01:01:44Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I must’ve been reading the wrong thread! Yeah, looks like it. Well, to be fair, it appears you’re suffering from selective reading incomprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/164 "2012-08-19T01:03:50Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I said… > > To which **Bosstone** replied… > > :dubious: I must’ve been reading the wrong thread! > (I hope this poster is suspicious of Reid, who got rich while being in office!) I think the causality works the other way: people suspect he is a crony and a thief, therefore he got rich. Romney is the face of our massive self-questioning about our own values in the wake global financial disaster. Questioning how he got his wealth and whether it is good for the USA to have people like him in charge (or even people like him at all) is about the best possible way to split up the right-wing coalition. It asks lower-income people who are not politically committed to right-wing immutable policies to think very seriously about whether they benefit from policies that serve the rich. It also asks them to seize some political power since they have no economic power. This is by far the most important and material issue of the electoral contest so far. The rest is just wind. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/165 "2012-08-19T03:13:18Z")
> [@digs](#): > > The last time I saw blind worship like this, it was from _ **Starving Artist** _. He was defending Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky. > > I wonder if Clothy’ll feel any pangs of conscience if he, too, has to eat his words… Ahem… I did not defend Sandusky. What I defended was the need to take an objective look at the evidence and the importance of due process. The Sandusky jury obviously agreed with me that McQueary’s testimony did not support a charge of rape, as it was one of only three counts they acquitted him of. My defense of Paterno stands. He has not remotely been shown to have known even that children were being raped by Sandusky, let alone that he covered it up and allowed it to continue. I’ve eaten no words. My conscience is clear. I’m not trying to start a new argument and I won’t argue the subject further here. I did want to set the record straight though since **digs** seems determined to try to bait me with this nonsense at every opportunity since I stopped posting in the Paterno thread (which is curious, given that he tried so earnestly to get me to stop posting in it), and I’d hate for any passing newbie or Paterno thread virgin to pass by and mistake him for an honest poster. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/166 "2012-08-19T03:19:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Ahem… > > I did not defend Sandusky. What I defended was the need to take an objective look at the evidence and the importance of due process. The Sandusky jury obviously agreed with me that McQueary’s testimony did not support a charge of rape, as it was one of only three counts they acquitted him of. > > My defense of Paterno stands. He has not remotely been shown to have known even that children were being raped by Sandusky, let alone that he covered it up and allowed it to continue. > > I’ve eaten no words. > > My conscience is clear. > > I’m not trying to start a new argument and I won’t argue the subject further here. I did want to set the record straight though since **digs** seems determined to try to bait me with this nonsense at every opportunity since I stopped posting in the Paterno thread (which is curious, given that he tried so earnestly to get me to stop posting in it), and I’d hate for any passing newbie or Paterno thread virgin to pass by and mistake him for an honest poster. Hey SA, fucked any papertowel rolls lately? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/167 "2012-08-19T03:22:18Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I think the causality works the other way: people suspect he is a crony and a thief, therefore he got rich. Romney is the face of our massive self-questioning about our own values in the wake global financial disaster. Questioning how he got his wealth and whether it is good for the USA to have people like him in charge (or even people like him at all) is about the best possible way to split up the right-wing coalition. It asks lower-income people who are not politically committed to right-wing immutable policies to think very seriously about whether they benefit from policies that serve the rich. It also asks them to seize some political power since they have no economic power. > > This is by far the most important and material issue of the electoral contest so far. The rest is just wind. Interesting viewpoint. But I think part of the problem is that the right tend to believe in the American dream and are the most likely to believe that they, too, could have riches if they worked hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/168 "2012-08-19T03:34:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Hey SA, fucked any papertowel rolls lately? No, but hearin from you reminds me that I should have gone with my first impulse, a toilet paper tube. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/169 "2012-08-19T05:43:52Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > You know, personally? I don’t have anything against rich people. I don’t want to scourge the country of anyone making over $1 mil. Many of them earned it and earned the comfortable life that comes with it. > > What bothers me is when some of those rich people want to destabilize the country simply so they can be even more rich. Those particular rich people, that subset, are rich fucks. We poor simpletons who barely earn a living wage have to give up large chunks of our income just so those rich fucks only have to give us one drop or none from their bucket instead of the usual three or four. > > Romney happens to be the poster child for those rich fucks. Like **Farmer Jane** said, he could pay 50% of his total wealth in taxes and still have more money than most people and way more money than he needs to live a wealthy life. Instead, he paid 13% in taxes and wants to pay even less, and he happens to be in a position to force the issue if he wins in November. He’s got a lot of buddies in the same boat, so it’s not just Romney’s money that the US needs, it’s all the rich fucks’ money. > > There may be plenty of rich Democrats, but they’re less likely to be rich fucks. They understand that tax cuts for the rich are unhealthy, and they’re not opposed to potentially raising the tax rates on the rich, including themselves, if it means a stronger country. Because guess what? Even if they paid the top marginal rate of 35%, even if we hiked the top rates up to 50%, _they’ll still be rich_. > > So I hope your false equivocation gave you a nice fuzzy tingly sense of smug superiority, because that’s all it does. Simpering about how bad both sides are just makes you look stupid. Ah, I see what you did there. Rich pubs are assholes, but rich dems are saints. thank you for enlightening me on that. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/170 "2012-08-19T06:03:19Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > Ah, I see what you did there. Rich pubs are assholes, but rich dems are saints. thank you for enlightening me on that. :rolleyes: dems Well, rich Republicans are still Republicans, so yes they are assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/171 "2012-08-19T06:14:03Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > Ah, I see what you did there. Rich pubs are assholes, but rich dems are saints. thank you for enlightening me on that. :rolleyes: Ah, I see what you did there, and it’s a hell of a lot more disingenuous than anything I ever did. I ain’t saying Dems are saints. I’m saying those assholes who vowed to never raise taxes again, and who want to screw 99% of the US to help the top 1%, are fuckheads of the highest order. And not many, if any, Dems have signed that stupid fucking pledge. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/172 "2012-08-19T13:09:04Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Interesting viewpoint. But I think part of the problem is that the right tend to believe in the American dream and are the most likely to believe that they, too, could have riches if they worked hard enough. Exactly. This is a direct response to Joe the Plumber. The tax return question suggests that no, you _can’t_ get that rich without being connected, slick dick scumbag who exploits policies that hurt people to maintain wealth. Does Joe the Plumber really want to _be_ Mitt Romney? This debate highlights just how much the rules are stacked against people with economic power. Rather than struggle individually to eke out a living when their economic interests are of no concern to the powerful, they could use their political power instead. There is nothing in any individual policy position that contains this kind of call to action. This goes much deeper than “fix Medicare.” It’s a call to change the rules of the game entirely. I think that not only have we not seen the end of it, this challenge is going to get deeper and more serious. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/173 "2012-08-19T13:39:30Z")
I love how so many people are just _positive_ that Romney did something illegal on his taxes, when they obviously have absolutely no facts to back that assertion up. Just a feeling. And yet if a Republican judges something on feeling then they are idiot derps for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/174 "2012-08-19T14:12:01Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I love how so many people are just _positive_ that Romney did something illegal on his taxes, when they obviously have absolutely no facts to back that assertion up. Just a feeling. And yet if a Republican judges something on feeling then they are idiot derps for doing so. Everyone judges things they don’t know on feelings. But that doesn’t mean that all such feelings are created equal. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/175 "2012-08-19T16:09:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How’d he get so lucky? I certainly hope I’m on your ignore as well. I’ve got a better idea. Why don’t you add me to your ignore list? That way, I don’t have to read your knuckle-dragging responses to things I post. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/176 "2012-08-19T17:38:23Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I love how so many people are just _positive_ that Romney did something illegal on his taxes, when they obviously have absolutely no facts to back that assertion up. Just a feeling. And yet if a Republican judges something on feeling then they are idiot derps for doing so. Actually, most people are just positive he didn’t, all laws were scrupulously followed (and every last loophole exploited). And _that’s_ the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/177 "2012-08-19T19:27:45Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’ve got a better idea. Why don’t you add me to your ignore list? That way, I don’t have to read your knuckle-dragging responses to things I post. That’s not how the ignore feature works, you dumb fuck. If you don’t want to read someone’s responses to the fucking moronic things you manage to type, then YOU have to put HIM on YOUR ignore list. Really this just sums up what a stupid dense fuck you are. You can’t even get simple things like this right, so how can anyone expect that you can understand the simplest of discussions. Maybe you should just put yourself on your ignore list and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/178 "2012-08-19T19:39:24Z")
In Russia, dumb fucks ignore YOU! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/179 "2012-08-19T20:01:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’ve got a better idea. Why don’t you add me to your ignore list? That way, I don’t have to read your knuckle-dragging responses to things I post. As always, I continue to search for the beginning of your intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745/180 "2012-08-19T20:06:16Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > That’s certainly reasonable, but his wealth is no secret so why are his returns necessary to make that call? The public knows how he got his wealth! I don’t care to see his tax returns. If the IRS thinks he’s done something illegal, they should audit him. I assume very rich people like him are always on their radar, although at this point it would probably be considered political if they were to do so. Still, there was plenty of time over the last few years to get him, if there was anything to get him for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13/631745.md?page=10)