Ah, I see.
No, I don’t think it could work as a solo game. And as squidfood points out upthread, it’s pretty hard for an average group of all neophytes to start playing together. I learned from a couple friends who had cool older brothers who already knew the game.
Now you’re making me feel bad. 
For the record–getting together with friends and having fun, those are the objectives. We had plenty o’ pizza as well.
Maybe that’s why it seems no long-distance computer game can ever compare.
Since when is the purpose of the column “Encouraging ignorance because it’s funny[sic]”?
I’d say you need to get over it. When I was a lad I had some experience in DnD, that piece was pretty much spot on for its purposes.
Nothing in Cecil’s schtick says a proper response has to meet fanboy wankery expectations.
But . . . but . . . it says, at the top of every page, “fighting ignorance since 1973.”
To me, it read like the question was from someone who had the same experience as Cecil and was wanting to understand why the game was enjoyed. They wanted to understand what they didn’t get about DND. And Cecil not only didn’t deliver, he promoted ignorance.
This isn’t about “fanboy wankery” and meeting any expectations but the site’s own promise. How is promoting ignorance and not understanding a topic before discussing it anything other than exactly against what this site is about?
For the record, I am a fanboy, and I laughed at the article, but I also know it missed the point of DND, and RPGs in general, by a long margin.
turlough
“Fanboy wankery for $1000, Alex.”
And will you say this when your fanboy topic is not handled well?
vislor
Appreciate the humor intended and try not to get all level 38 + whine powers about it.
Look really this stuff reminds me of the whole Chevy vs. Ford thing. Being a Texan, I have seen people throw down to knuckles over some silly shit such as that. I am a Chevy guy, being an ex-mechanic, and I appreciate them from that stand point, but really the Ford is a good truck too and comfortable as hell to drive on a long trip. It doesn’t matter.
If I really got miffed at articles on the internet that I thought were offensive to my sensitive and fragile inner-nerd’s ego… wow life would suck.
For example, I am listening to The Cure right now. I am a musician and I appreciate the subtleness of some of their music. I guess you could call me a pretty big fan. Now to some people, Robert Smith sounds like a cat on mesciline doing laps in a fan belt of a 1986 Chevrolet Celebrity. That doesn’t hurt my feelings. People feel the same way about my Three Tenors LPs that I blast from my living room on Sundays.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. My days of letting some faceless, and often times nameless, person on the internet ruin even a second of my day is a decade behind me. Most of the time, I don’t comment.
True, there is some level of “fanboy wankory” happening or I wouldn’t keep commenting. I think it’s more my own want of being understood than caring whether or not DND is understood. I’m merely asking why a) a site that “fights ignorance” can’t be called to task for not fighting ignorance and possibly promoting it and b) whether or not people really want their own “fanboy wankory” stepped on because they are doing that to others. Or it could be perceived as that’s what is happening.
But, on my end, after I hit reply, I don’t think about it until I see a response and none of this has caused any bad feelings. So, no worries here!
vislor
Do you feel that you need to justify your like of Dungeons and Dragons like there is something wrong with it? I didn’t take it from the article like there was anything wrong with being into stuff like that…
It seems like the article really has the fan boys edgy over the whole thing, and I wonder if people feel guilty for being into D&D. Do you think thats why people are so edgy about it? They don’t want to be grouped with these people?
Find more people just like them using this Google search!
:eek:
I could totally go for this D&D hottie though. Warning: Hawtness Ahead, CLICK NOW
LOL! no, it’s nothing like that.
Without going into my boring life, I don’t feel the need to justify my own enjoyment of DND. But, I do find it fun and if I can even introduce one other person to it, that’s great. To that end, people need an accurate picture of it, not what they heard thru Jack Chick or the like.
I’m a math geek, and worked as a programmer, so the math described didn’t turn me off of the game. But, it’s not what the game is about! So, again, I am merely expressing my disappointment that this site would spread ignorance.
And, btw, I have been those people you linked to! I don’t get to conventions much but I enjoy the heck out of it when I do go! But I would be happy to sit down and play a game, or run a game, with any of them!
vislor
Well hell vislor if you are ever in North Texas for anything come by and show me this new fangled game. I might like it too.
spark240 said:
I agree, the whole point of D&D was that you didn’t have to memorize how to determine any of those point thingies, they were written down in an easily referenced source so you could look them up. You’re a GM and want to put a Dragon in the adventure? Look up “Dragon” in the Monster Manual, and away you go. Rather attack your party with a hoard of giant rats? They’re in there, too. Ogres, bugbears, whatever you want. That’s not what D&D is about.
But to my comment, the paragraph is a description of how to calculate the various important number stats needed to determine how to kill the dragon and what that gives to the party who completes it. It uses various abbreviations to summarize several characteristics that make sense if you understand the game dynamics, but are mindboggling to the uninitiated precisely because they are jargon. I’ve run into the same problem with several of the discussions on baseball here lately. Someone will cite a rule and I’ll go, “Designated hitter? What’s that?” and have to go look it up. “BEXP? WTF?”
The particular ones cited are extremely goofy. They seem oddly out of place in what the D&D universe is supposed to be. The “Mad Libs” comment seems to be that it’s like the Monster Manual creators ran out of Ogres, Bugbears, and Trolls, so go sucked in to “What do we put in next? How about shrieking mushrooms? They don’t attack, you can kill them without effort, and logically they don’t make sense because it would be like car alarms - once you start hearing them, you quickly start ignoring them because they are false alarms. Yet somehow dungeon monsters apparently don’t mind false alarms.”
squidfood said:
Yeah, it’s not really something you can just pick up and start playing. For starters, it’s helpful for the GM to have actually played the game as a PC first.
Superhal said:
Cecil is correct that the game is entirely different from regular board and card games, and that it can be mind-bogglingly difficult for the uninitiated to try to figure out.
Then again, Chess isn’t exactly child’s play, either, yet plenty of people learn to play it and even enjoy it.
Superhal said:
Well there’s part of your problem. There are several ways to come up with a percentage. Rolling your 20 sided die 5 times and then summing the totals is the worst way. You could have rolled 2 ten-sided die and let one be the tens place. You could have rolled your 20 sided once and then divided by 2. Done that twice for ones and tens places.
But yeah, there is some math. Keeping up with rolled numbers vs. target values you have to beat or be under. Rolling for hit against their evasion, then rolling for damage. Rolling to evade their strike, rolling for damage. Adding in bonus points for various weapons/armor/etc.
Translucent Daydream said:
But how is that a dumb or goofy question? The OP asked what kinds of these games there are, how they are played, and where to find out more about it. How is that dumber than, say, “Why is shit brown?” Which Cecil answered factually.
Translucent Daydream said:
Your poor, fragile inner nerd.
How worked up am I over this? Not all that much. But this strikes me as a case where Cecil fails on his own stated mission. He claims to be fighting ignorance, but this column was promoting it. “You want to know about D&D? It’s incomprehensible. See? Even I can’t figure it out.”
He didn’t even try to explain the concept of role-playing, vs. going through mazes and hacking up monters to find treasure. He glanced at the manuals, discovered that the mechanism is complex, quoted Gygax stating some overly philosophical verbage on the point of the game, then assumed that’s all there is to it.
He could have talked about how dice are used to add an element of chance, rather than a strict deterministic outcome. (“I’m a level 5, I beat your level 3.” “The bad guy has 47 HP and you only have 29 HP - you lose.” “It’s a dragon, of course your party dies.”) He could have explained that the stats sheet is a way to keep track of your character’s abilities and condition so that you can compare and compute the outcome to any conceivable occurrence in the game. (Hanging out in a bar, someone spikes your drink to steal your money? You have a “saving throw” to see if the drug takes or not. ) He could have explained that the helpful game makers compiled a list of standard monsters that you might encounter and how to calculate their stats, rather than have to make it all up from scratch yourself. He could have explained that the standard adventure consists of taking a party of players through some sort of “dungeon” where they try to collect treasure and have to fight off monsters and such. By doing so, they accumulate “experience points”, which allow the players to advance in levels, and thereby increase their skills, get better weapons and armor or magic spells, etc. [Okay, he hinted at this last part.]
At least he answered the final part of the question.
I am guessing you don’t see it.
Well, I think there is only one competitor worth talking about.
**
Oh, and he got to make a board game out of his content.***
Apparently, it is a good thing he did, because “Cecil” doesn’t care much for dice, or for role-playing, Ironically.
Apparently, fighting ignorance takes a back seat to securing a cosmetic ranking over others doing the exact same thing. Silly me, I thought that we needed all the help we could get on this ignorance thing.
Ruefully agreed.
Who would that be?
Powers &8^]
Well, you know how it is. Internet geeks are just lightyears ahead of RPG geeks, what with the massive social skills, attractiveness and personal hygiene. So there’s the bragging and ragging rights, right there.
