# Wow, that's mighty sexist of you, Borders. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2007, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652 "2007-02-03T07:57:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/21 "2007-02-03T10:18:58Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] Cooking books are in the cooking section. Those are books. The cooking magazines are broken up about equally between a dining/culinary section and the women’s interest area. I was actually originally saying there was no point in having a men’s and women’s interest sections period, but roomie made a good point. I mean, GQ, FHM, and Maxim are men’s interest magazines. Cosmo, Jane, and Marie Clare are women’s interest magazines. Beyond those types of publications, I can’t imagine fairly categorizing anything. Science is a men’s thing? Cooking is a women’s thing? Is this 1812? [/QUOTE] It seems that Border’s has a labeling problem in more ways than one. The above mags are clearly aimed at different sexes, what about the others? Modern Drummer, Guns and Ammo, Guitar Magazine, Muscle and Fitness…I’m sure we can agree that the majority of buyers of these magazines are men. That’s not even counting boobie mags. So, rather than adopt an alphabetical system that would put Poker Monthly right next to Playgirl, such stores need to group all titles that might interest one person in one area. I’m sure you’re aware of the reasoning behind this, both economically, and statistically. It seems to me that the divisions amongst the magazines make sense in a purely economical sense, but are a far cry from being politically correct. One could remove the gender labeling in a magazine rack, but I guess they’d sell fewer magazines. I know I’m not going to browse through 70+ magazines to find a mag that I only kind of want. If I saw all the mags I’m likely to want, I might buy more than one. Either way, there’s no better way to sell mags on a rack than I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/22 "2007-02-03T10:37:50Z")
I’m not disagreeing that there is a need for a system of organization and that sure, most of the readers of Guns and Ammo, Bodybuilder Quarterly, and Big Black Jugs are probably men. But science? Magazines like Discover? How is that any more manly than it is feminine? Hell, I’ll even buy that it’s most logical to put a lot of the history magazines near the men’s stuff- particularly the war history, but _science_? Seriously? That said, I really don’t think either should be together under the male title, it just isn’t fair. There, I said it. I’m whining. Go ahead and tell me life isn’t fair. But how much harder would it be for Borders to have, I dunno, a science section? Or just organize things together- why not put the women’s section near the men’s section, rather than have it completely at the other end of the display- that way the separation isn’t so blatant? Why does the male section have the science, the history, the economics, and the politics. . .while the women have bridal and hair magazines? Oh, and cooking magazines! If it really doesn’t matter, why not switch the science magazines over by the women’s interests? Oh, we asked her boss that last one. She said corporate dictates where the stuff goes. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/23 "2007-02-03T10:48:54Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] \\*\*But how much harder would it be for Borders to have, I dunno, a science section? \*\* Or just organize things together- why not put the women’s section near the men’s section, rather than have it completely at the other end of the display- that way the separation isn’t so blatant? Why does the male section have the science, the history, the economics, and the politics. . .while the women have bridal and hair magazines? Oh, and cooking magazines! If it really doesn’t matter, why not switch the science magazines over by the women’s interests? [/QUOTE] How about an “Arts and Sciences” section, which would be conviently genderless? Art magazines, cooking magazines, National Geographic, Smithsonian, Discover, Omni, and various history magazines could all go in that section and be easy to locate by all. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/24 "2007-02-03T12:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] Omni [/QUOTE] Omni’s gone and, frankly, in its later years it had pretty much abandoned “science” as a category. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/25 "2007-02-03T12:27:40Z")
As an educated male, I would like to make a well-reasoned contribution to this discussion. [QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] Roomie is a bio major and adores science- she’s almost 6 feet tall with beautiful, long black hair and-on the surface- is not the typical science nerd. [/quote] Woah! Can we see pictures of her? 🆒 What? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/26 "2007-02-03T12:35:16Z")
[QUOTE=nitetime] While women enter college with better achievement up to that point, they don’t go for those advanced degrees as often. Bias against women at that level is certainly a major factor in that. [/QUOTE] whoo, no one’s going to even \*comment \* on that? Really? Bias is the major factor at work here? I mean, I know this is the pit and all, but… Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/27 "2007-02-03T12:40:33Z")
[QUOTE=Captain\_C] /buzzkill You can’t take pictures inside Borders without permission. /buzzkill [/QUOTE] Apparently you can. Or at least, the OP can. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/28 "2007-02-03T13:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > **nitetime** said: > But you aren’t little girls anymore. There is still plenty of bias against women at the advanced level of you and your roommate. > > Basically, girls are ahead of boys, and society is mostly fine with that, but when they get older a lot of people still expect women to go with their “traditional” subjects and men with theirs, regardless of what they have done before. I went into computer engineering (and am now employed as a full time software engineer), and while the girls were outnumbered by the guys by a huge margin, I can’t say I ever saw outright bias against us. The locale where I work is 35 software engineers. There are five females. There’s only one in my entire division. Outnumbered? Yes. Biased against? I’m thought of as one of the top ‘rock stars’. Three of the other four women have been treated with nothing other than respect. The last one gets no respect because she does no work. She seems to consider it her job to go around the office all day sitting on various guys’ desks, and occasionally orders cake. There was a concerted effort in the university to get more girls into engineering. The interest just wasn’t there. The engineering discipline with the most girls was civil (which included civil-environmental), and after that it seemed to go chemical, mechanical, industrial, electrical, and computer. So how do you get around the fact that more men than women are choosing to go into the heavy science disciplines? ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/29 "2007-02-03T14:15:05Z")
Huh… I Canada there’s Chapters (same kind of deal) and as far as I’ve ever noticed, magazines are ALL in the big honkin’ magazine section where everyon is standing around reading. I don’t think there’s a “Men’s Interest” area at all, but if you go to the “Health and Fitness” area, you’ll find sections on “men’s health” and “women’s health.” A “Men’s Interest” area is so vague/broad it seems pretty pointless to even _have_ that as a category. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/30 "2007-02-03T14:19:19Z")
**Diosa** , tell your friend to check out [BrainCake.Org](http://braincake.org). And I didn’t know you were a history nerd-sweet! ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/31 "2007-02-03T14:40:01Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] we’re out numbered in our classes by boys 3 to 1 (roughly, give or take, yadda yadda). [/QUOTE] And suddenly the economics of putting it under “Men’s Mags” makes sence. Shop displays are not just organised around a “help you find what you’re looking for” idea, they’re a form of advertising to put the product into the faces of as many potentential customers as possible. We’re talking about a much bigger problem than magazines if there are patterns all through the education system. Don’t blame the store for working within society’s expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/32 "2007-02-03T14:54:13Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Aww… you chicks are so cute when you’re angry. Was the “Oprah’s Book Club” selection sold out, or something? [/QUOTE] 😃 Thanks, that made my morning. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/33 "2007-02-03T14:56:56Z")
[QUOTE=essell] And suddenly the economics of putting it under “Men’s Mags” makes sence. (sic) [/quote] Point being, why not have the girlie mags under ‘men’s interests’ (though, again, lesbians might disagree) and put the science magazines under - oh - say - ‘Science’? Which has been suggested a number of times already. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/34 "2007-02-03T14:57:27Z")
Great rant, **Diosa**. ---
**Author:** ![stutteringjane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@stutteringjane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stutteringjane)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/35 "2007-02-03T14:59:23Z")
[QUOTE=essell] And suddenly the economics of putting it under “Men’s Mags” makes sence. Shop displays are not just organised around a “help you find what you’re looking for” idea, they’re a form of advertising to put the product into the faces of as many potentential customers as possible. We’re talking about a much bigger problem than magazines if there are patterns all through the education system. Don’t blame the store for working within society’s expectations. [/QUOTE] Yeah. Watch what ads are run during Monday Night Football, then watch what ads are running during Sex and the City. ---
**Author:** ![stutteringjane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@stutteringjane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stutteringjane)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/36 "2007-02-03T15:01:46Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] Point being, why not have the girlie mags under ‘men’s interests’ (though, again, lesbians might disagree) and put the science magazines under - oh - say - ‘Science’? Which has been suggested a number of times already. [/QUOTE] And why don’t you read more carefully? [![](https://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/diosabellissima/Borders/science-1.jpg) ](https://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4/diosabellissima/Borders/science-1.jpg) There’s a placard that clearly says “science.” ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/37 "2007-02-03T15:09:50Z")
[QUOTE=essell] And suddenly the economics of putting it under “Men’s Mags” makes sence. Shop displays are not just organised around a “help you find what you’re looking for” idea, they’re a form of advertising to put the product into the faces of as many potentential customers as possible. We’re talking about a much bigger problem than magazines if there are patterns all through the education system. Don’t blame the store for working within society’s expectations. [/QUOTE] Moreover, I’m betting that any survey of buying patterns will show that the greatest proportion of science magazine buyers is male, while the greatest proportion of bridal magazine buyers is female. In a way, you can’t blame the store for putting magazines in a section the majority of buyers are most likely to peruse. On the other hand, I think it would work OK to do away with the gender labels, and label by subject instead, so yeah, screw Borders anyway. On a related note, I noticed last week that the old Harris Teeter (grocery store) nearby has a “Mothers with Children” parking space, whereas the newer store has a “Customers with Children” space. So sometimes there is progress, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/38 "2007-02-03T15:15:29Z")
IIRC, when I worked at Borders, the manager who oversaw the magazine placement had the discretion as to where things went. I’d start with the GM at the store first. ---
**Author:** ![Hogwash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e57/32.png) [@Hogwash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogwash)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/39 "2007-02-03T15:15:58Z")
As with everything, money is as good an explanation as any. They’ve probably crunched the figures, the stats, the market research and arrived at an arrangement of magazines that gives them the most (opportunity for) profit. For every girl that is pissed off not being able to locate Civil War Monthly magazine, there could be three other guys who impulse-buy it while they’re picking up Jugs and Football. This reminds me of my trip to the Topshop (trendy and affordable British female clothing chain, Topman being the male equivalent) flagship store in London. Basically, you have a whole, vast space full of clothes, yet clustered by the checkouts are rows upon rows of brightly coloured candy. To me, it was obnoxious. I could practically hear some marketing arsehole screaming: “Yeah, you girls like clothes and shopping. You know what you also like? Candy. That’s why we’ve put the candy by the checkouts, because we know you bitches can’t get enough of the brightly coloured confectionery. We’ve put it by the checkouts because our research says that you idiots love to buy it on impulse while waiting to be served. Forget that candy has absolutely fuck all to do with clothing, we want some more money. On your period? Have some fruit chews. Boyfriend upset you by implying that you’re fat? Here, have some chocolate and prove that bastard right! God, you women love that fucking chocolate as much as you like a new pair of boots. Why not get 'em both at the same time?” ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2007, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652/40 "2007-02-03T15:20:32Z")
[QUOTE=niblet\_head] IIRC, when I worked at Borders, the manager who oversaw the magazine placement had the discretion as to where things went. I’d start with the GM at the store first. [/QUOTE] I’m not surprised. In the Borders I shop at most often, the History and Science magazines are not in or adjacent to the “Men’s Interest” section. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-thats-mighty-sexist-of-you-borders/390652.md?page=3)