# Wow, the Boeing 777's been involved in lots of recent incidents. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 9, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415 "2015-09-09T05:55:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/1 "2015-09-09T05:55:32Z")
It wasn’t long ago that the Boeing 777 was regarded as one of the safest airplanes in the world. And it arguably still is one of the safest. But then the EgyptAir Boeing 777 cockpit fire, British Airways Boeing 777 engine mishap in 2008, Asiana crash at San Francisco, MH370 disappearance, MH17 shootdown has affected that reputation. And now a British Airways Boeing 777 just caught fire at Las Vegas… To be fair, the Asiana crash was pilot error and the MH17 shootdown was human-caused. And MH370 may be human-caused too. But that pristine Boeing 777 safety reputation has just taken a big hit (IMHO, unfairly so) these past few years. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/2 "2015-09-09T07:01:58Z")
A quick skim over the stats and history suggest it is very much a safe aircraft. I believe I’m booked onto one for a transatlantic trip with my family soon and it doesn’t give me a moment’s cause for concern. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/3 "2015-09-09T08:25:03Z")
They’re also adorable aircraft, with their wide bodies and big engines. They look like something designed by Fisher-Price. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/4 "2015-09-09T12:02:12Z")
Another vote pro-777; of all the wide-bodied aircraft I’ve flown in (and I’ve been in all the Airbus and Boeing products, including the A380), it is the smoothest and most comfortable plane of the bunch. Most of the incidents appear to not involve faults within the plane itself; albeit that fire in Vegas does merit investigation. Note: Haven’t flown in the new 787 yet, but it is just entering service; I’ll get around to it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/5 "2015-09-09T12:41:27Z")
Joining the crowd: 20 years in commercial service and that’s the tally? That’s a splendid record. I’m actually pleasantly surprised those monster engines have not had more major issues, but of course you can’t grow complacent. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/6 "2015-09-09T13:54:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > the EgyptAir Boeing 777 cockpit fire Only the Egyptian government believes that, and then only officially. And it was a 767. > [@](#): > > MH17 shootdown has affected that reputation Why would it? > [@](#): > > But that pristine Boeing 777 safety reputation has just taken a big hit (IMHO, unfairly so) these past few years. The more there are in service, the more frequent the unconnected, random incidents will be. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/7 "2015-09-09T14:06:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Joining the crowd: 20 years in commercial service and that’s the tally? That’s a splendid record. And for a comparison, look at how many [707s crashed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_707#1960s). ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/8 "2015-09-09T14:08:37Z")
What the hell was Boeing to do to avoid the shootdown, add jamming pods? > [@Alessan](#): > > They’re also adorable aircraft, with their wide bodies and big engines. They look like something designed by Fisher-Price. The [777X](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777X) takes the cake ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/9 "2015-09-09T14:30:07Z")
That’s the second British Airways 777 hull loss (I’m guessing this latest one will be anyway) - both times with no fatalities, which I find remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/10 "2015-09-09T14:52:52Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > That’s the second British Airways 777 hull loss (I’m guessing this latest one will be anyway) - both times with no fatalities, which I find remarkable. Despite the idiocy of the passengers taking their freaking luggage off the plane while other passengers were still inside. I would love to see them charged with something like - endangering the lives of others. Stupid gits! (Hey it was a British Airways flight) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/11 "2015-09-09T15:31:01Z")
Y’know I can understand a purse or handbag, but grabbing a whole rollaboard? While fleeing a fire? :smack: > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Only the Egyptian government believes that, and then only officially. And it was a 767 You may be thinking of a different incident, OP mus thave meant this: > **[EgyptAir Flight 667](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_667)** > > On 29 July 2011, a Boeing 777 on a scheduled passenger flight from Cairo, Egypt, to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, flying as Egyptair Flight 667, suffered a cockpit fire on the ground at Cairo Airport, while preparing to depart. There were no fatalities, but seven people were treated for smoke inhalation. The aircraft was damaged beyond economic repair. > The subsequent investigation found that the fire had originated in the crew's emergency oxygen system storage area, but was unable to conclusively deter... ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/12 "2015-09-09T16:02:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Only the Egyptian government believes that, and then only officially. And it was a 767. I’m not referring to the crash in the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/13 "2015-09-09T18:17:46Z")
Gotcha. Now what two, if any, items on your incident list have related causes? And how many are faults of the aircraft? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/14 "2015-09-09T18:53:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > …, MH370 disappearance, That was Airbus, not Boeing. Asiana crash at San Francisco … pilots flying airplanes into the ground is really not the fault of the airplane. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/15 "2015-09-09T18:56:59Z")
Um, my turn - MH370 was a 777. The BA crash at Heathrow was a fuel system icing problem, specific to the Rolls Royce installation, now fixed. The BA fire yesterday at Las Vegas, with a GE engine AFAIK, counts as a mechanical issue as well (design, quality, maintenance, don’t know yet). The Egyptair cockpit fire is an airframe issue. All the rest are human-caused, and Ukraine and MH370 intentionally so. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/16 "2015-09-09T19:14:11Z")
In its 20-year history, the Boeing 777 has been involved in a total of [14 incidents](http://aviation-safety.net/database/types/Boeing-777/database), ranging from tailstrikes and attempted hijackings to the infamous MA370/MH17. Only four incidents involved fatalities, none of which were caused by mechanical fault of the airplane itself. I’d call that a freakin’ spectacular safety record. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/17 "2015-09-09T20:59:08Z")
Think about the poor[Boeing 747.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747#Accidents_and_incidents) > [@](#): > > As of July 2015, the 747 has been involved in 129 accidents or incidents,[196] including 58 hull-loss accidents,[197] resulting in 3,748 fatalities. The 747 has been in 31 hijackings, which caused 25 fatalities. And the [737](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737#Accidents_and_incidents)is worse! > [@](#): > > As of July 2015, a total of 357 aviation accidents and incidents involving all 737 aircraft have occurred,[142] including 181 hull-loss accidents resulting in a total of 4,860 fatalities.[143] The 737 has also been in 111 hijackings involving 325 fatalities.[144] I would fly in any of them without a second thought. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/18 "2015-09-09T22:39:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The BA crash at Heathrow was a fuel system icing problem, specific to the Rolls Royce installation, now fixed. The BA fire yesterday at Las Vegas, with a GE engine AFAIK, counts as a mechanical issue as well (design, quality, maintenance, don’t know yet). The Egyptair cockpit fire is an airframe issue. How did British Airways end up with 777s with two different engine manufacturers? I would think their maintenance folks would want as much commonality as possible. Two engine suppliers means keeping more spare parts on hand and training mechanics in procedures for two engine types. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/19 "2015-09-09T23:04:51Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How did British Airways end up with 777s with two different engine manufacturers? An engine fault doesn’t ground your entire fleet? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415/20 "2015-09-09T23:21:14Z")
Also, sometimes a specific model of the airplane is used for a specific configuration in service. You may have the stretch or extended-range version use a different engine type from another. Also in a model that has been in service 20 years you may have aircraft ordered in 1995 to one spec and aircraft ordered in 2010 to a different spec in the same fleet. Plus, quite importantly, airlines and manufacturers often want to avoid the possibility of a hang-up at the engine maker holding back the airplane deliveries. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-the-boeing-777s-been-involved-in-lots-of-recent-incidents/730415.md?page=2)