# Wow, these people are our future? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 2, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106 "2006-05-02T15:07:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/61 "2006-05-03T17:41:44Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > Some people aged 24+ have gone their whole lives without learning where Iraq is. > > Wow, these people are our past? I’m part of our past? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! :eek: Those kids would probably be shocked at my ignorance of current movie and TV personalities, sports stars, and current popular music. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/62 "2006-05-03T17:51:37Z")
Actually, not knowing where Iraq is seems like simple efficiency. It seems likely at this point that in a few years there won’t be a country called “Iraq”, but rather two or three smaller nations, segregated by religion, occupying the same space. May as well just wait and learn their names. I’m sure that’s what all those students were thinking. (Seriously, though, I’m with the “who cares?” crowd. Demonstrate to me that those students aren’t capable of _finding out_ where Iraq is on a map, and I care a great deal more.) ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/63 "2006-05-04T06:05:59Z")
I cannot believe that so many thinking adults are seriously saying that basic ignorance of the world just doesn’t matter. This is appalling rationalisation and justification of ill-education. Would any of you be saying that not knowing the alphabet or the 5x tables was OK because you could just go look it up somewhere? No! There is a basic level of general knowledge required to function meaningfully in the world, and knowing where pretty much every country is, is part of it. Simply astonishing. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/64 "2006-05-04T13:19:49Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I cannot believe that so many thinking adults are seriously saying that basic ignorance of the world just doesn’t matter. This is appalling rationalisation and justification of ill-education. Would any of you be saying that not knowing the alphabet or the 5x tables was OK because you could just go look it up somewhere? No! There is a basic level of general knowledge required to function meaningfully in the world, and knowing where pretty much every country is, is part of it. Simply astonishing. But are you saying that being able to find Iraq on a map is essential to meaningful functioning? It demonstrably isn’t. And no one can say, with any degree of specificity, what “general knowledge” is. People generally use the term to mean “things\* I \*know.” For example, the OP would have hardly opened this thread to diss people for not knowing where Iraq is if he/she didn’t know where it was him/herself. Ours is the great age of specialization – people often don’t have much “general” knowledge, but have a great deal of knowledge about things that matter to them. Plus, with the Internet, you know you can always look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/65 "2006-05-04T15:10:29Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Heh. **if6was9** just called me with almost these exact words. He stopped at McDonalds to grab a couple cheeseburgers and a soda on the way to work. The total came to $3.39. He gave the girl behind the counter $3.50. She pushed a button on the register, made a confused face, and called over to her coworker: “Liiiiiiisaaaa!! Can you come help me? I pushed the wrong button and I can’t count change backward.” > > It would be funny if it wasn’t so horrifying. Amusing/horrifying anecdote: I went up to our local petrol\* station to buy a loaf of bread, which cost £1.12. I gave the guy a £2 coin. A _coin_. He rang it up on the till, and gave me back… £3.88. I stared at him. He stared back. The real idiot in this story is me. I pointed out his mistake. :smack: Well, I didn’t want him calling back to me as I left the shop. \*Americans call it ‘gas’. :rolleyes: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/66 "2006-05-05T05:51:21Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > But are you saying that being able to find Iraq on a map is essential to meaningful functioning? It demonstrably isn’t. And no one can say, with any degree of specificity, what “general knowledge” is. People generally use the term to mean “things\* I \*know.” For example, the OP would have hardly opened this thread to diss people for not knowing where Iraq is if he/she didn’t know where it was him/herself. Ours is the great age of specialization – people often don’t have much “general” knowledge, but have a great deal of knowledge about things that matter to them. Plus, with the Internet, you know you can always look it up. Which is exactly the kind of blinkered philistine ignorance (to quote MP) I was railing against. Overspecialisation (if that’s really the wafer-thin basis of your defense of ignorance) is just an excuse for ill-education. As Robert Heinlein said: > [@](#): > > A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/67 "2006-05-05T05:58:57Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > Ours is the great age of specialization – people often don’t have much “general” knowledge, but have a great deal of knowledge about things that matter to them. We’re talking about schooling, though. I thought schools were supposed to give you a good base of general knowledge so you could figure out what matters to you and _then_ specialize in whatever that is. And again, if schools aren’t even letting students know where Iraq is, it’s hard to be confident that they’re teaching much else about Iraq. Also, let’s not overlook the fact that Iraq’s location on the map is part of why it’s in the news. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/68 "2006-05-05T08:11:44Z")
I believe that as self appointed leaders of the free world we have a minimal responsibility and basic human respect to know who we are killing ad where they are on the map. Where is Carmen San Diego when we need her? (Tongue firmly in cheek) ---
**Author:** ![Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b3f665/32.png) [@Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hanna)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/69 "2006-05-05T12:29:47Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Heh. **if6was9** just called me with almost these exact words. He stopped at McDonalds to grab a couple cheeseburgers and a soda on the way to work. The total came to $3.39. He gave the girl behind the counter $3.50. She pushed a button on the register, made a confused face, and called over to her coworker: “Liiiiiiisaaaa!! Can you come help me? I pushed the wrong button and I can’t count change backward.” > > It would be funny if it wasn’t so horrifying. Well, I can’t count out change to save my life, and I just finished a calculus course. Of course I’ve never worked retail or with a cash register either, but maybe she was new? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/70 "2006-05-05T13:45:13Z")
Okay, for everyone who wants to complain about the lack of general knowledge of others, I’ve put together a little quiz. Here goes: [ol] [li]Who wrote _Idylls of the King_, and about what historic figure?[/li][li]If you’re given volts, what do you need to calculate watts?[/li][li]What’s the formula for calculating the area of a circle? [/li][li]Name this [tree](http://static.flickr.com/17/20619475_1d32f159a7.jpg)[/li][li]Name this [bird](http://images.enature.com/birds/birds_m/BD0339_1m.jpg)[/li][li]Name a situation where you are likely to use a dado joint[/li][li]Name all the NFL teams in the state of California[/li][li]Define Say’s Law[/li][li]How many fluid ounces are in a cup?[/li][li]Define the relationship among the following: gene, chromosome, DNA[/li][li]What is the name of Bart Simpson’s bespectacled friend?[/li][li]How many members of Congress does your state have?[/li][li]What metals typically are used to make brass?[/ol][/li]If you can’t answer 100% of these general-knowledge questions, then maybe you should stop dissing other people for their lack of general knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/71 "2006-05-05T14:21:04Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > I cannot believe that so many thinking adults are seriously saying that basic ignorance of the world just doesn’t matter. This is appalling rationalisation and justification of ill-education. Would any of you be saying that not knowing the alphabet or the 5x tables was OK because you could just go look it up somewhere? No! There is a basic level of general knowledge required to function meaningfully in the world, and knowing where pretty much every country is, is part of it. Simply astonishing. I disagree (and did so early on in the thread): > [@glee](#): > > When I was at school (a long time ago), we learnt by heart: > > - the alphabet > - 12 times table (because of pounds, shillings and pence) > - the Monarchs of England in order > - some French nursery rhymes > - the Counties of England > > I still use the alphabet, but we have decimalised the currency. So much for knowing that 11x12=132. And 6 shillings and 8 pence is a third of a pound. > I understand Victorian History much better from the works of George McDonald Fraser than from the rote learning of School. > I still have no idea why we chanted ‘sur le pont d’avignon’ until we had memorised it. > After a local government reorganisation, the Counties have changed. > > **What this shows is that very little information needs to be memorised. It is instead vital to know how to look things up, and how to check your cites.** > > I know Iraq is in the Middle East and I know you use an Atlas for its location. > > If someone stops me in the street and asks me to point to Iraq on a map, I know (as Smeghead pointed out) that they are having a slow news day. But since you state knowing where pretty much every country in the World is required to function meaningfully :eek: , try this simple quiz: Where are these located? Yugoslavia Jersey The Cook Islands Rhodesia Kalmykia The USSR Gibraltar San Seriffe Prussia Turkmenistan Belize ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/72 "2006-05-05T15:15:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Also, let’s not overlook the fact that Iraq’s location on the map is part of why it’s in the news. I couldn’t pick it out on a map but I know it sits on oil which the US would like, it’s in a restless area the US would like a hold on, and Saudi Arabia wants the US out so the US would like to set up shop in Iraq instead. Good enough? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/73 "2006-05-05T15:54:43Z")
It is an interesting question. personally, i found geography interesting. I can accept that a lot of people do not. And, as has been said, most people will never have occasion to need to know a lot of geography. But I find it amazing that most people are so incurious about the world. but then again, i don’t know anything about basketball! ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/74 "2006-05-05T16:38:52Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Where are these located? We are not at war with any of these countries and some of them don’t even exist anymore. The point is: these kids are in school! Or should be. And knowing where Iraq is should be a basic function of every civics or history class because of what we’re doing there right now. I wouldn’t be dismayed if a current high schooler didn’t know where Vietnam was, even though they probably should know, because while Vietnam is important historically it is not currently important. Same with Korea, Kosovo, or hell even Germany and Japan. But Iraq is currently important and these kids will have to vote on this issue in very short time. And schools should teach what’s currently in the news, such as basics about Iraq which includes its physical location. And if they don’t know it in such large numbers, either the school isn’t doing their job or kids aren’t absorbing the knowledge. It’s probably both. And no, I don’t think the “well I don’t know anything about sports or pop culture, what’s the diff?” thing holds water. Those things are not taught in schools so it’s not a failing of the school system if someone doesn’t know them. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/75 "2006-05-05T16:46:00Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is an interesting question. personally, i found geography interesting. I can accept that a lot of people do not. And, as has been said, most people will never have occasion to need to know a lot of geography. But I find it amazing that most people are so incurious about the world. > but then again, i don’t know anything about basketball! Ralph, I think the key point is **what do you need to memorise by heart?** I have a reasonable idea of where countries are in the World. But I don’t need to memorise any of this stuff - just to know where to look it up. I think a big change in people’s lives is when they first take an interest in the rest of the World. I do worry sometimes that because the US is so rich and powerful that its citizens don’t feel the need to think about other countries. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/76 "2006-05-05T16:49:34Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > I couldn’t pick it out on a map but I know it sits on oil which the US would like, it’s in a restless area the US would like a hold on, and Saudi Arabia wants the US out so the US would like to set up shop in Iraq instead. Good enough? Not bad. But I think you need to know who set up the current countries in the region; why the boundaries they chose were bad; who brought Saddam to power; who sold him weapons; why the Kurdish problem affects neighbouring countries attitudes and why Al-Qaeda hate the US. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/77 "2006-05-05T17:01:31Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > We are not at war with any of these countries and some of them don’t even exist anymore. Do you mean their names or their boundaries have changed? :eek: How many of them can you point to on a map? How many of them are in a state of conflict? (not with the US, but anyone) > [@davenportavenger](#): > > The point is: these kids are in school! Or should be. And knowing where Iraq is should be a basic function of every civics or history class because of what we’re doing there right now. I wouldn’t be dismayed if a current high schooler didn’t know where Vietnam was, even though they probably should know, because while Vietnam is important historically it is not currently important. Same with Korea, Kosovo, or hell even Germany and Japan. But Iraq is currently important and these kids will have to vote on this issue in very short time. And schools should teach what’s currently in the news, such as basics about Iraq which includes its physical location. And if they don’t know it in such large numbers, either the school isn’t doing their job or kids aren’t absorbing the knowledge. It’s probably both. I agree that it’s important to know about Iraq. I also think Vietnam has a lot of relevance to Iraq. (How did politicians justify starting each war? Why use names like ‘police action’ and ‘enemy combatant’?) However I think that current news stories are going to be hard to teach in history lessons. (No chance of textbooks for example.) You can certainly have a class discussion of the issues. However there are heavy political overtones. Suppose you were the teacher. How would you answer questions like ‘Was the war justified?’ or ‘Why did the UN not back us?’ or ‘Why isn’t Saddam being tried at the International War Crimes Court?’. Finally school should teach kids how to learn. Let them read newspapers and surf serious net sites. teach them to distinguish Government spin from truth! ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/78 "2006-05-05T17:08:06Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I have a reasonable idea of where countries are in the World. But I don’t need to memorise any of this stuff - just to know where to look it up. Well, if kids knew the general location of Iraq then it should be easy enough to use a map to find it, as long as they have basic map-reading skills. (I am assuming the map was marked.) So they don’t even know it’s in the Middle East. Which in my opinion is terrible. Oh, and I could find four of the countries or former countries on that list by sight, know the general area of three, and am in the dark on the other four (I have never heard of San Seriffe or Kalymkia). And I don’t think I’m terribly well-informed. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Wombats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Wombats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Wombats)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/79 "2006-05-05T17:29:47Z")
Perhaps a better question would be, would these people know how to go about figuring out the answers to these questions? Yeah, sure, I couldn’t pick out the Czech Republic on a map right off the bat, although I could ballpark it. But I know how to figure that out… Off the top of my head I don’t recall the formula for the surface area of a cone, but if I go grab a book off my shelf I can have it in a minute… There’s an absurd amount of knowledge in the world… and it simply isn’t possible (I’d contend) to know / remember all of it… But if you recognize that and know how to go about looking up information you require I’d say you can balance that out… Give these kids a labeled atlas… If they still can’t find Iraq… Well, then we’ve got a problem ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106/80 "2006-05-05T17:33:36Z")
I’m sure most people struggle to identify states like Iraq, Iowa, Idaho [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-these-people-are-our-future/355106.md?page=5)