# Wow, was I ever clueless about women! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994 "2013-05-22T06:52:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/41 "2013-05-23T18:09:05Z")
**gaffa** , you’ve picked up all the hints the women in this thread have thrown your way, right? ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/42 "2013-05-23T18:13:31Z")
Yeah, this is why I like being me. I am a girl and if I want to have sex with you, you’ll know. I may start out subtle but if you don’t pick up any hints, I will outright ask if you want to have sex. What’s wrong with that? (For reference, I have received no negative responses so guys may actually be pretty clueless.) ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/43 "2013-05-23T18:13:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You think flirting is “getting naked and oiled up?” > > I think you’re doing it wrong. Or very, very right. That’s not how\* I\* flirt, but if I were to get naked and oiled up under anyone other than a masseuse/masseur, I’d be hinting at more than a massage. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/44 "2013-05-23T18:22:50Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Shhh…they don’t want to hear that. When we tell them we’re honest, bold, and open about or intentions, they can’t fantasize about all the hot women who offered themselves up like sacrificial virgins at the altar. I swear upon the graves of both my mother and my father that everything I said in my original post is true. The porn star in question was [Jody Maxwell](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0561730/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1), who was the daughter of my dad’s boss. She was in a few well-respected “Golden Age” porn movies like _The Satisfiers of Alpha Blue_ and _Outlaw Ladies_. And yes, she was [famous for her ability to sing and perform fellatio simultaneously.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0185654/reference) One of my favorite quotes from an SDMB poster: “Truth is stranger than fiction because truth doesn’t have to make sense.” > [@](#): > > This discussion doesn’t seem to invite a female perspective, but I’ll leave this here anyway. The couple of times I experienced a shared attraction with a bashful man, I lost interest while he was nervously overthinking, fumbling, and feinting. The problem from my perspective is that women seem to be compelled to do things in a subtle way for fear of being seen as “slutty”. > [@](#): > > The total lack of confidence and apparent inability to read an obvious opportunity led me to believe that sex would be an equally halting, fumbling (in)experience. On the other hand, from the women I’ve talked to, confidence in a man is also frequently accompanied by selfishness and a lack of empathy, two things that make a shitty lover. > [@](#): > > I didn’t walk away frustrated with fond memories of what could have been; I walked away relieved that I dodged an awkward bullet. Happily remained friends, though. Here’s the thing, you could have had the opportunity to teach these guys what what you like and vastly improved their lives and the lives of their future girlfriends. That’s what happened to me with one ex-girlfriend. She was bisexual and very carefully taught me what she did and didn’t like, giving me feedback. While every woman has different likes and dislikes, I learned to pay attention to her physical responses and improve my technique, especially with cunnilingus. We broke up, but when she and my wife met years later, my wife thanked her. > [@](#): > > I’d rather have a guy I don’t want gamble on a move and handle rejection gracefully (You win some, you lose some, we still cool?) than hem and haw like a nervous kid. I wasn’t hemming and hawing, I was blind to the “signals”. As I said, I got better, but I consider myself very lucky that I am able to concentrate on a single woman these days. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/45 "2013-05-23T18:26:50Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I know this is crazy, but the only rule I have is: respect me and treat me like an equal member of the human race. I must be doing this whole femininity thing totally wrong. Well, I can certainly say you ain’t doing it the average way. I’ve got at least 2 stories where me “respecting” a woman went from most very likely gonna get laid to ain’t getting laid at all. And for that matter I have never had a woman basically say “hey, you wanna fuck or or not”. I ain’t the biggest prize but on the other hand I doubt I am that hideous/worthless either. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/46 "2013-05-23T18:27:45Z")
> [@bup](#): > > **gaffa** , you’ve picked up all the hints the women in this thread have thrown your way, right? No. As I said, I’m happily married. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/47 "2013-05-23T18:41:35Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’ve got at least 2 stories where me “respecting” a woman went from most very likely gonna get laid to ain’t getting laid at all. You realize that this statement makes it sound like you’re saying that because of your experiences, you now prioritize your cock over respecting partners, yes? > [@billfish678](#): > > And for that matter I have never had a woman basically say “hey, you wanna fuck or or not”. Well, then it must not happen. It’s all part of our rules, dontchaknow. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/48 "2013-05-23T18:57:34Z")
I’ve never seen anything like the descriptions in this thread. If I’ve missed signals they were ridiculously subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/49 "2013-05-23T19:01:03Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The problem from my perspective is that women seem to be compelled to do things in a subtle way for fear of being seen as “slutty”. Don’t count on all women feeling/behaving that way. I’m not in the least concerned with whether or not I’ll appear slutty, as I’d rather not be with a man who considers me “slutty” for wanting to have sex with him. > [@gaffa](#): > > On the other hand, from the women I’ve talked to, confidence in a man is also frequently accompanied by selfishness and a lack of empathy, two things that make a shitty lover. In my deliberately limited experience, confident lovers take pride in paying attention to responses and being a good lover. You know, hitting the high spots first and lingering on what seems to be working while adding in new moves. > [@gaffa](#): > > Here’s the thing, you could have had the opportunity to teach these guys what what you like and vastly improved their lives and the lives of their future girlfriends. That’s what happened to me with one ex-girlfriend. She was bisexual and very carefully taught me what she did and didn’t like, giving me feedback. While every woman has different likes and dislikes, I learned to pay attention to her physical responses and improve my technique, especially with cunnilingus. We broke up, but when she and my wife met years later, my wife thanked her. That sounds incredibly frustrating to me. All women, just like all men, are different. I’d never use a vise grip on future lovers because one particularly ticklish boyfriend preferred a firm touch. It’s probably better to hit the high spots and adjust the finesse moves to each individual. How did that teaching session go, anyway? “No, not like _that_, like\* this\*. No, _higher_. Use the _other_ hand. That’s too slow, I’ll never get there. Too high, a little bit lower. _Lower_. Here, _let me do it._ (Shoulda stayed home)” And seriously, I’m a generous soul but I’m not in the least interested in improving my lover for future girlfriends. I want to keep the guy I’m sleeping with, not ship out a new and improved model for the next girl. > [@gaffa](#): > > I wasn’t hemming and hawing, I was blind to the “signals”. As I said, I got better, but I consider myself very lucky that I am able to concentrate on a single woman these days. Nervous hemming and hawing is what hesitation felt like to me and why I didn’t stick around to wait it out. I have no way of knowing if the lack of response reflects a lack of mutual interest, a health problem, a lack of birth control, Catholic guilt, or just total cluelessness, which I’d assume translates to the bedroom. If he doesn’t want me, I’ll save it for someone who does. So off I went in search of a guy who was all about it. Not trying to be harsh at all, just telling you what I was thinking the couple times I dated shy guys. If either of them stumbles back into my life and asks “Hey, that time, did you want to…?” I’m going to say “Nope”. And if they say, “I’d like another chance” I’ll say “Nope”. The entire appeal of a physical crush for me is imagining what sex would be like with that person. When he or she is awkward, hesitant, and shy, I’m less charmed than annoyed and frustrated. Sex with a scared or clueless man just doesn’t sound appealing at all. I prefer enthusiasm. Hearty enthusiasm. Rowsing, romping, growling, grinning enthusiasm. You know, like being in the middle of that huddle before a football game. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/50 "2013-05-23T19:03:14Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > Yeah, this is why I like being me. I am a girl and if I want to have sex with you, you’ll know. I may start out subtle but if you don’t pick up any hints, I will outright ask if you want to have sex. > > What’s wrong with that? > > (For reference, I have received no negative responses so guys may actually be pretty clueless.) What’s wrong with that? Not a damned thing. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/51 "2013-05-23T19:10:38Z")
ETA: I should have left room for the girls who love hesitant, unceasingly cautious and polite guys. I’m sure some will come along who find the OP utterly charming and appealing. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/52 "2013-05-23T19:35:09Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > You realize that this statement makes it sound like you’re saying that because of your experiences, you now prioritize your cock over respecting partners, yes?. No. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. Of course you probably haven’t been fucked since Nixon was alive. Or maybe even in office. The first case. The lady wanted me. For months. If I gave the details any reasonable person would go :smack: But I did not fuck her when I had the first possible chance. You know why? Because at the time she wanted to seal the deal she was drunk and I did not think that was the right thing to do. We had a fun time “making out” but that was it. And for that matter that was the first time we had even we made out. And for the second matter, that was even the first time we had been alone together and we had not even had something remotely like a date. So I “respected” her and I didn’t go too far and that killed it. The other one was the same way. In hindsight it was apparent she wanted to do the nasty. And I hesitated because I thought it was way too fast, way too soon and the circumstances kinda sucked. And, again, trust me, I thought she woulda been a damn good fuck, an interesting long term relationship, and even possibly “the one”. And, again I did not because of my morals. And, again that was the death of that possible relationship. So, you know what I learned from that? If a woman sends signals that she might wanna fuck you got one chance and one chance only. Given the recent misogyny wars here on the Dope I find your post pretty damn funny. And ironic. Share your own funny/sad " men can’t notice obvious clues" stories or IMO get the frack out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/53 "2013-05-23T19:43:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So, you know what I learned from that? If a woman sends signals that she might wanna fuck you got one chance and one chance only. And you were right the first time. You shouldn’t do it if she/he is drunk, or steamroll someone who is unclear or hesitant for whatever reason. You don’t take what isn’t freely given. There will be other chances, other opportunities in which both parties are equally willing and able to enjoy each other with no regrets or repercussions. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/54 "2013-05-23T19:48:03Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > And you were right the first time. You shouldn’t do it if she/he is drunk, or steamroll someone who is unclear or hesitant for whatever reason. You don’t take what isn’t freely given. There will be other chances, other opportunities in which both parties are equally willing and able to enjoy each other with no regrets or repercussions. Also known as: respecting her choices. Which is, incidentally, exactly what I said that he originally responded to. But hey, I apparently haven’t been fucked since Nixon was in office. Which is weird, because I wasn’t born until the end of the Reagan administration. Being a virgin is, apparently, the best. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/55 "2013-05-23T19:54:48Z")
Billfish678 sounds like a grumpy old codger. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/56 "2013-05-23T19:57:23Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Also known as: respecting her choices. Which is, incidentally, exactly what I said that he originally responded to. I knew exactly what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/57 "2013-05-23T19:59:56Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > I have no way of knowing if the lack of response reflects a lack of mutual interest, a health problem, a lack of birth control, Catholic guilt, or just total cluelessness, which I’d assume translates to the bedroom. If he doesn’t want me, I’ll save it for someone who does. So off I went in search of a guy who was all about it. > > […] When he or she is awkward, hesitant, and shy, I’m less charmed than annoyed and frustrated. Sex with a scared or clueless man just doesn’t sound appealing at all. I prefer enthusiasm. Hearty enthusiasm. Rowsing, romping, growling, grinning enthusiasm. You know, like being in the middle of that huddle before a football game. In many threads on this board the women are consistent in that they are not interested in teaching the basic course. I can not blame a woman for wanting someone who’s “ready to do the job on day one”, as is often said of political or employment candidates. As a longtime signals-obliviot whom ladies have needed to whomp with the clue-by-four more than once, I may feel the OP’s and others’ pain, but honestly if the dude can’t figure it out or is too confused as to whether that’s a signal or not, he may have inadvertently saved _himself_ an awkward moment. > [@billfish678](#): > > So, you know what I learned from that? If a woman sends signals that she might wanna fuck you got one chance and one chance only. So? There are \*\*\*other \*\*\*women. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/58 "2013-05-23T20:02:07Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. Of course you probably haven’t been fucked since Nixon was alive. Or maybe even in office. I couldn’t decide between “personal insults” and “use of inappropriate language,” so I settled on “being a jerk.” This is completely out of line for MPSIMS. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/59 "2013-05-23T20:06:32Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/60 "2013-05-23T20:09:14Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I couldn’t decide between “personal insults” and “use of inappropriate language,” so I settled on “being a jerk.” > > This is completely out of line for MPSIMS. > > **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator " Did you read my whole response? She make a moral judgement on me and I explain why its a bunch of baloney and I get the warning? She doesn’t get a warning for a thread shitting comment that basically says (and given the fact is the opposite of true) “quite thinking about your dick first”. Sure, give me a warning if you must. But she need one too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994.md?page=4)