# Wow, was I ever clueless about women! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994 "2013-05-22T06:52:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/101 "2013-05-25T02:18:07Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Those people are wrong, and you are wrong to believe that. _Every_ human being is worthy of love and respect, but you’ve got to start with yourself. I’ve been kicked out of \*\*gaffa \*\*'s thread, but PMs are enabled. I put the one you sent me in the bin where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/102 "2013-05-25T08:05:35Z")
I realize that there’s literally no way this will be received other than with more attacks and nonsense, but here goes. There are lots of fat nerds in this world who get fucked. A lot. I’m sure many people on this very board-- in this very thread-- would happily testify from the mountain tops to that fact. Believe it or not, there are people in this world who actually _prefer_ fat nerds. One person’s gross is another’s Adonis. The key, you see, is to exert kindness toward other people-- whatever your genuine manifestation of that may be. Find your good qualities and work on making those as good as they can be. Downplay your bad. If your attitude in this thread is in any way an example of how you react to the actual women you encounter in meatspace, it’s no surprise that you are striking out. Your ‘nothing will help’ attitude isn’t working for you by your own admission. I think her point was simply that forcing a change within yourself-- no matter how unnatural it is at first or how painful the blinding light of Truth may be-- is the key to trying a different path that may garner you a little more success. Continue to wallow if you’d prefer, but I can guarantee you that there are people out there who would be physically attracted to you and even more than just that. Hell, you may even find yourself with a boatload of missed opportunities, like the guys posting in this very thread. Double hell, you might already have some of those now and not even realize it (no, seriously. Part of the reason I’m so overt in my communication is because I am _terrible_ at reading subtle signals or flirts. A guy has to be as direct with me as I’d be with him, otherwise we’d both just wander off, unfondled). ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/103 "2013-05-25T12:19:49Z")
There was another time when a girl called me to tell me about her dream she had where we had sex. I responded with somewhat of an akward “oh, that’s cool.” and never really followed up. It’s even worse because I recognized it for what it was at the time, but liked the girl so much that I didn’t want to make any sort of advance of my own in fear that I might screw it up. She was fucking beautiful too. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/104 "2013-05-25T23:14:10Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I realize that there’s literally no way this will be received other than with more attacks and nonsense, but here goes. > > There are lots of fat nerds in this world who get fucked. A lot. I’m sure many people on this very board-- in this very thread-- would happily testify from the mountain tops to that fact. Believe it or not, there are people in this world who actually _prefer_ fat nerds. One person’s gross is another’s Adonis. The key, you see, is to exert kindness toward other people-- whatever your genuine manifestation of that may be. Find your good qualities and work on making those as good as they can be. Downplay your bad. If your attitude in this thread is in any way an example of how you react to the actual women you encounter in meatspace, it’s no surprise that you are striking out. I’ve never “struck out.” by 8th grade experience told me that I shouldn’t even bother stepping up to the plate. I don’t know what my “good qualities” are. I can’t even understand why I have the job I have. and as far as my attitude in this thread, it’s one of those things. it’s way easier to lash out when you can’t see the people you’re interacting with. > [@](#): > > Your ‘nothing will help’ attitude isn’t working for you by your own admission. I think her point was simply that forcing a change within yourself-- no matter how unnatural it is at first or how painful the blinding light of Truth may be-- is the key to trying a different path that may garner you a little more success. Continue to wallow if you’d prefer, but I can guarantee you that there are people out there who would be physically attracted to you and even more than just that. Hell, you may even find yourself with a boatload of missed opportunities, like the guys posting in this very thread. Double hell, you might already have some of those now and not even realize it (no, seriously. Part of the reason I’m so overt in my communication is because I am _terrible_ at reading subtle signals or flirts. A guy has to be as direct with me as I’d be with him, otherwise we’d both just wander off, unfondled). well, I’m doubly screwed there. I really, _really_ don’t like going places. I’ve been dragged to places I don’t like (e.g. a few of us went to a hockey game, and everyone decided to go clubbing afterward) and all I do there is sit on the edge of a panic attack. and no, I can’t think of any point in my life where a girl/woman was giving me signals apart from “eeewww, get away from me.” ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/105 "2013-05-26T00:01:56Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’ve never “struck out.” by 8th grade experience told me that I shouldn’t even bother stepping up to the plate. For what it’s worth, by 8th grade, I hadn’t kissed anyone or been on a date either. Never even held someone’s hand. Guys made fun of me, called me fat, mooed at me, all kinds of awful shit. For better or for worse (ok, it’s for worse), that’s what kids do. At 27, if I held on to those experiences and let them dictate my romantic life 15 years later, I wouldn’t ever find anyone either. When you’re defensive (even reasonably so), it’s easy to take positivity or complimentary behavior and make it into something cruel. I’ll be honest with you, though: I’m not trying to play armchair psychologist, but I hope you understand that while what you feel isn’t _wrong_, it also isn’t the default for most people. Maybe you already have or are, but it might be worth while to find someone professional to talk to. While a lot of psychology can be kind of hokey and silly, a good therapist can teach you coping mechanisms for anxiety and all those awful feelings that bubble up in social situations. Please don’t take that advice as condescending or judgmental, I truly and genuinely mean this from a good place and I am sorry if it’s coming across cruel at all. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/106 "2013-05-26T00:16:16Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > For what it’s worth, by 8th grade, I hadn’t kissed anyone or been on a date either. Never even held someone’s hand. Guys made fun of me, called me fat, mooed at me, all kinds of awful shit. For better or for worse (ok, it’s for worse), that’s what kids do. > > At 27, if I held on to those experiences and let them dictate my romantic life 15 years later, I wouldn’t ever find anyone either. When you’re defensive (even reasonably so), it’s easy to take positivity or complimentary behavior and make it into something cruel. > > I’ll be honest with you, though: I’m not trying to play armchair psychologist, but I hope you understand that while what you feel isn’t _wrong_, it also isn’t the default for most people. Maybe you already have or are, but it might be worth while to find someone professional to talk to. While a lot of psychology can be kind of hokey and silly, a good therapist can teach you coping mechanisms for anxiety and all those awful feelings that bubble up in social situations. Please don’t take that advice as condescending or judgmental, I truly and genuinely mean this from a good place and I am sorry if it’s coming across cruel at all. believe me, I don’t take it as condescending or judgmental. most of you have been exceptionally nice to me, even when I’ve been a miserable prick in return. I’ve just been called ugly and fat to my face so many times that I have to assume it’s true. I’ve considered seeing a therapist, but haven’t since I don’t know what one could tell me that I don’t already know. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/107 "2013-05-26T00:24:46Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > believe me, I don’t take it as condescending or judgmental. most of you have been exceptionally nice to me, even when I’ve been a miserable prick in return. I’ve just been called ugly and fat to my face so many times that I have to assume it’s true. I’ve considered seeing a therapist, but haven’t since I don’t know what one could tell me that I don’t already know. Our realities are our truth, but that doesn’t mean they are the Truth. It’s takes some practice to get used to that fact and honestly, one of the hardest things we can do is learn that we are good and worthy of love. Like I said, I get it. That sounds hokey as hell, but it’s true. Or True. Maybe. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/108 "2013-05-26T06:43:35Z")
Yeah, JZ I got to agree with the ladies here. You got to be happy with yourself first. You got to own your own happiness. If someone calls you a name, you got to have the guts to to tell them to fuck off because they don’t get to define you. You define you. Other people should only contribute or compliment you. They should not be the source of your happiness. This is coming from a guy who’s also been single his whole life. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/109 "2013-05-26T16:51:55Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Yeah, JZ I got to agree with the ladies here. You got to be happy with yourself first. You got to own your own happiness. If someone calls you a name, you got to have the guts to to tell them to fuck off because they don’t get to define you. You define you. Other people should only contribute or compliment you. They should not be the source of your happiness. All of which has nothing to do with the original post, which was about not being able to read “signals” from women. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/110 "2013-05-26T17:13:13Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > All of which has nothing to do with the original post, which was about not being able to read “signals” from women. True. But I’m about all out of stories at this point. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/111 "2013-05-26T20:02:48Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > All of which has nothing to do with the original post, which was about not being able to read “signals” from women. I think it’s pretty clear that our friend here is unable to read signals from women-- but in his case it’s because his past experiences have clouded his judgment into thinking no one could ever be hitting on him. I have trouble believing that in his entire life, a lady hasn’t tried to subtly make a move on him and it was misinterpreted because of his mindset. Sure, it isn’t the same silly, fun stories you all were sharing, but it’s topical. ---
**Author:** ![ptr2void](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ptr2void/32/3406_2.png) [@ptr2void](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ptr2void)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/112 "2013-05-26T20:24:58Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > For what it’s worth, by 8th grade, I hadn’t kissed anyone or been on a date either. Heh, I didn’t have my first date until the very last day of eighth grade. I was a nerd – gifted classes and all – but so were all of my friends. I don’t think too many of us had any girlfriends/boyfriends or dates to that point. It was a slightly different time though; for reference, we all went to see a movie…the original _Clash of the Titans_ with Harry Hamlin. And for geek credibility, the girl with whom I went on that date – and went out with for about two weeks after – put “I Love Physics” under her HS yearbook picture 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/113 "2013-05-26T20:27:54Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear that our friend here is unable to read signals from women-- but in his case it’s because his past experiences have clouded his judgment into thinking no one could ever be hitting on him. Which I’m sure would make a fine thread. > [@](#): > > I have trouble believing that in his entire life, a lady hasn’t tried to subtly make a move on him and it was misinterpreted because of his mindset. In my case, I’m not sure why I was so blind to signals, but this is not the thread to psychoanalyze me either. > [@](#): > > Sure, it isn’t the same silly, fun stories you all were sharing, but it’s topical. I swear by all that is holy that the stories I mentioned are absolutely true. We really did have a family friend who was a porn star, and I really was friends with a neo-goth stripper to whom I gave a naked warm oil massage. I didn’t mention the time I was invited to a “party” that was very small - me, the two girls that invited me, and maybe 3 other guys. Two of those guys left early and the two girls disappeared into a bedroom with the third, with me waiting in the living room for twenty minutes, when one of the girls came back out to the living room in a bathrobe and sat down on the couch next to me - and I didn’t get laid. Or the female friend who invited me over for the evening to hang out. I can still remember helping her fold her laundry, picking a black Teddy out of the basket. A non-idiot would have suggested that it would be really nice to see how she would look in it. Again, I did eventually figure out how to read some signals - like from the girl who called herself “Gypsy” who gave me a handjob on the #56 bus. Or the girl who came home with me after the Rocky Horror Picture who with whom I spent a very memorable night without air conditioning slipping and sliding over each other. Or somehow ending up living as the third in a ménage à trois with my best friend and his girlfriend - we only got together in a big pile once, the rest of the time he was with her on weekends and me and her weekdays. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/114 "2013-05-26T20:31:06Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear that our friend here is unable to read signals from women-- but in his case it’s because his past experiences have clouded his judgment into thinking no one could ever be hitting on him. I have trouble believing that in his entire life, a lady hasn’t tried to subtly make a move on him and it was misinterpreted because of his mindset. Honestly I don’t really have that tough a time believing that someone who generally doesn’t feel comfortable at social outings and engagements has never been approached in a potentially romantic manner. I’ve certainly been to more than a few parties where I ended up sitting on a folding chair off in the corner of the room worrying an empty beer-cup into shreds and staring down at my shoes and I gotta say that it’s never really lead me anywhere people-meeting-wise. It’s cool though because now that there’s internet, you can just hang out on forums devoted to discussing model train sets or Linux or sensual taint-massage fetishes or whatever else you actually do enjoy and eventually you will probably find someone who you can be friends with. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/115 "2013-05-26T23:26:52Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > …like from the girl who called herself “Gypsy” who gave me a handjob on the #56 bus. I sometimes feel like I live on an entirely different planet from some people, and stuff like that happens on the other one. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/116 "2013-05-26T23:49:25Z")
sorry for messing up your thread, **gaffa**. I’ll exit here. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/117 "2013-05-27T00:18:11Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I sometimes feel like I live on an entirely different planet from some people, and stuff like that happens on the other one. She liked my t-shirt. It was a promo shirt for the Steve Martin movie _[Dead Men Don’t Wear Plaid](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083798/reference)_ which had the logo for the local rock station KY-102 on the back. If I were making this stuff up, I would probably make up stuff that was less crazy sounding. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/118 "2013-05-27T00:27:54Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > If I were making this stuff up, I would probably make up …stories about getting blowjobs, not handjobs. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/119 "2013-05-27T00:35:13Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > …stories about getting blowjobs, not handjobs. 🆒 Exactly! A girl can get away with playing with a dick on the bus when there is nobody else in the back half of the bus, and what her hand is doing is obscured by the back of the seat in front of her. I got the impression she had done this before. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994/120 "2013-05-27T00:42:31Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I sometimes feel like I live on an entirely different planet from some people, and stuff like that happens on the other one. It’s a magical wonderland called “public transport in the evening” and it’s a lot like this world except it smells more like a hobo’s balls. Have you ever been to the Bellagio? It’s like that, but stickier. It’s not all that much fun when the person you’re sitting next to is a fisting fan, though. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wow-was-i-ever-clueless-about-women/658994.md?page=7)