Write one sentence to justify war that only applies to Iraq

Great Debates
21

I read your whole post Sam Stone, and I have concluded that you are really a bunch of monkeys hammering on a keyboard. The amount of gibberish that emits from you is amazing.

Nowhere do you cite or give links to your statements.
You obediently chant government propaganda lies.
You have not tried to inform your self on the issue apart from what you hear from Ari Fleisher.

Suddenly daddy Bush has become a landmass or an embassy. (…directly attacked the United States by attempting to assassinate George Bush Sr.) So it’s ok for you to try to assassinate Saddam, but them to pay you the same respect?

For you implication is obviously proof. You can implicate anyone of anything, but it doesn’t mean anything unless you back it up with facts. A famous McCarthy tactic: “We have no proof, but LET THEM DENY IT”

On nuclear weapons:
Quote:
“When I left Iraq in 1998, when the UN inspection programme ended, the infrastructure and facilities had been 100% eliminated. There’s no debate about that. All of their instruments and facilities had been destroyed. The weapons design facility had been destroyed. The production equipment had been hunted down and destroyed… We can say unequivocally that the industrial infrastructure needed by Iraq to produce nuclear weapons had been eliminated. “ – Scott Ritter, former UN inspector. From the book: War on Iraq.

On chemical weapons:
Quote:
“Iraq manufactured three nerve agents: sarin, tabun, and VX. Some people who want war with Iraq describe 20,000 munitions filled with sarin and tabun nerve agents that could be used against Americans. The facts, however, don’t support this. Sarin and tabun have a shelf-life of five years. Even if Iraq had somehow managed to hide this vast number of weapons from inspectors, what they are now storing is nothing more than useless, harmless goo.”

“We hunted and hunted, and finally, in 1996, were able to track down 200 crates of glass-lined production equipment Iraq had procured specifically for a VX nerve agent factory. They had been hiding it from the inspectors. We destroyed it. With that, Iraq lost its ability to produce VX.”

“The real question is: is there a VX nerve agent factory in Iraq today? Not on your life.” – Scott Ritter, former UN inspector. From the book: War on Iraq.

Link:
http://www.twnside.org.sg/title/twr147e.htm

But of course according to you the Iraqis have done the impossible, magically rebuilt destroyed factories and conjured up special material and equipment unavailable in Iraq for production of WMD. All this in only five years, under heavy sanctions. You must think they are superheroes.

You think Iraq is going to become democratic republic overnight? You think Iraqis are going to love you and thank you for liberating them, after 12 years of sanctions, which have ruined the whole infrastructure of the country and caused thousands of innocent deaths?

Perhaps you think, or refuse to believe that the US government would lie to the American public?

Well think again.

22

They shot down our planes in the no-fly zone.

23

hlujarn: Wow. You fling an ad-hominem at me, and then don’t address anything I had to say. But you ramble on about islands, and ‘Daddy Bush’, and try to make some strange claim that Saddam was within his rights to assassinate him because after all, Bush went after Saddam first?

Then you accuse me of believing official documentation from the U.S government, and as a counterpoint you quote Scott Ritter, who has been so thoroughly discredited that he shouldn’t be able to sell used cars.

You’re going to have to do better than that.

And no, I don’t believe everything the U.S. government says. In fact, I fully expect that some of what they are saying is disinformation. On the other hand, you seem to be totally willing to accept as gospel the ravings of an ex-inspector who has totally flip-flopped on his opinions AFTER he was in a position to have any classified evidence, who’s opinions don’t even match that of his former boss or the current U.N. chief inspector.

So on one side we have GW Bush, Condi Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, and Tony Blair, all of whom are in strong agreement that Iraq is in serious violation of its commitments. We have partial agreement on this as well from Hans Blix, Richard Butler, and other U.N. inspectors who all have far more stature than Ritter, as well as access to far more current information.

On the other side, we have the ranting and raving Scott Ritter, who flings opinions around without evidence, who totally changed his own opinion without new data, and who is also a serial solicitor of sex with children (and therefore a possible target of Iraqi blackmail).

And you’ve got the nerve to call me gullible.

Anyone who quotes Scott Ritter as an authority has no right to call into question the veracity of the U.S. government’s information. You might as well quote Sean Penn, who has declared that Iraq has no more weapons. He’s about as believable as Ritter.

24

A plane with a person in it? When?

25

hlujarn: I suggest you search for Scott Ritter’s name on old threads here. He has been utterly discredited. And, this has nothing to do with his recently rpeported arreest in a sex scandal. He had set up an assignation to maturbate in front of someone he met on the internet. Unfortunately for Ritter, she had lied about being a teen-age girl. She was actully a police woman. :wally

26

Oh, and I forgot to add someone else who supports the Bush position and who had recent access to the highest level of classified information:

  • Bill Clinton, in a speech in Raleigh on December 11, 2002

Is Clinton part of the administration’s cabal too? Oh, and Hillary also signed off on an attack on Iraq. Along with 76 other senators.

27

Iraq is currently in material breach of UN Security Council Resolutions, violating a ceasefire agreement.

How about SPOOFE gets the washer and I get the dryer?

28

Laissez-faire is here
Countries trade; A Free Market
My Favored Nation.

and



               p=<o )
               }  )(
                 (  `\
                  \._ \
                   JJ ^~~==

We agree to disarm.

29

What is being done is discrediting a source. It is a well known tactic. When you discredit a source you discredit the information. Why? What has his work on the inspection teams have to do with him wanting teenage girls? What does Bill Clinton wanting a head from an intern have to do with running an administration? What does Ritter stand to gain by making this up? The Iraqi blackmail theory is a LONGSHOT, just like everything the Bush cabal brings up.

That has nothing to do with facts.

Sarin and Taboon have shelf life of 5 years. If they have some leftovers, it’s useless.

CIA infiltrated UN inspection teams to spy on the whereabouts of Saddam.

If they had an active nuclear program we would know about it. Enriching uranium emits gamma rays easily detectable by satellite.

Where is the evidence Iran is producing WMD? Where is the evidence these three countries are working together? Iran does the testing? You don’t think we would know about that? What nuclear material did North Korea give Iran and Iraq?
WHY DO YOU SAY THIS STUFF?

Again, proof. What is your source? George Bush slogan?

Now where is the proof of that? Where do you get your info?

Here you are just talking out of your arse. “State sponsorship gives them access to ……” you talk about this like it’s a proven fact. ITS NOT.

You are right about an internal revolution in Iran, but it will not necessarily tilt heavily to the United States. North Korea may say they have the Bomb, it doesn’t mean they have it. Yet again speculation.

Please tell me which of Iraqi neighbors have been threatened by Saddam the last 5 years. Please support your claim about Bin Laden quivering with rage in his cave. I don’t think it’s a s simple as that.

Again, point to me some links, quotes, facts, anything to make this statement valid. His funding of Palestinian suicide bombers is known, the rest: ???

Speculations with no base in reality.

I seriously doubt you can back up any of these claims. It’s naïve to think the political situation in the Middle East spawned the war on terror. Just as it is naïve to think the political situation in the Middle East will be solved by a change of regime in Iraq

30

I was presenting that whole scenario as the reasoning of those who support war. Much of it can be documented, some of it is informed speculation and extrapolation.

For example, there is no doubt that North Korea has sold missiles to Iran, Yemen, Syria, and other countries. Iran has done extensive missile testing that North Korea is prohibited to do. It’s no stretch to see that this is a mutually beneficial arrangement.

After doing more research, I can’t verify any North Korean cooperation on nukes with Iran or Iraq, so I’ll withdraw that point.

Where is the evidence that Iran is producing Weapons of Mass Destruction? You know, I don’t think this point is disputed by anyone in a position to know. For example, here’s what the CIA has to say about that:

As to Iraq and Iran sponsoring terrorism, I don’t think that’s really in dispute either. From [

Iraq has harbored terrorists that have attacked the United States, such as Abu Nidal. There is no disputing this by anyone.

And Iraq:

And Ramsi Yousef, who was convicted of the first WTC attack, may have been an Iraqi agent. In 1992, he claimed to be Abdul Basit Mahmud Abdul Karim, a Pakistani born and reared in Kuwait. When the U.S. government requested Karim’s police files, the fingerprints in the files matched Yousef’s. Abdul Basit Karim, however, vanished in Kuwait along with his entire family, leading many to believe that his identification was stolen by Iraqi Intelligence for their own use.

Granted, this is not conclusive evidence, which is why I was careful to say “implicated” and not “proven”. Here’s some interesting reading from the[url=http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm] Federation of American Scientists](]Terrorism Answers:[/url) web site.

As for North Korea having nukes - they say they do, the U.S. says they do, Britain says they do, the IAEA says they do. Why should I believe otherwise?

31

I am becoming suspicious. Canada. Hovering over us to the North. Can Canada produce weapons of mass destruction? Canada has proven resources of uranium. Canada has the technological expertise. Hell, Upper Volta has the technological expertise.

And there she sits, breathing down on our neck. What proof do we have that Canada has not converted her whale blubber into nerve gas. None!

Minnesota stands ready!

32

I believe they prefer Burkina Faso these days. :wink:

33

How much do you want to bet that Texas A&M could produce a nuclear weapon?

34

They just may be able to…

35

Some very good justification for war here, all repeated from the official mouthpieces of a nation that lied, and continues to lie about the fact that dring the Vietnam war it used its intelligence services to operate part of the heroin trade to covertly finance the unofficial war in Cambodia.

Strikingly similar to the events in the Iran-Contra affair.

Given the policy known as the “War on Drugs” and the prison terms this involve one wonders why some of those operatives are not residing at Uncle Sam’s expense, prisoner class.

The US government lies about its involvement about such things, is there any reason to believe it now ?

Much of Bin Laden’s wrath is actually directed at the odious Saudi regime, which has been supported by the US, much of the anger of the Arab world is directed at the continuing support by the US for Israel, which they see as every bit as much a terrorist state as the US sees Iraq.

The US is directly responsible for much of mid-eastern instability, but if it were to turn itself away the region would likely end up even worse.

I am not yet convinced of an overriding reason for invasion of Iraq, perhaps the reasons do exist but are too sensitive to be made public right now, but certainly many of the reasons given at the moment are hardly any differant to those which apply in other nations, Syria is perhaps the most notorious state sponsor of terrorism, but little mention is made of this.

I honestly find it hard to imagine that a few people in very prominent marked vehicles can achieve enough surprise to be able to catch Iraq in the act of concealment, not in such a large country.

Imagine say two hundred persons working together trying to prevent say twenty people from finding something as large as several thirty ton lorries in a city the size of New York.
Now imagine the same problem on a scale a few hundred times bigger, except maybe the number of searchers.
Needle in a haystack would be childs play compared to this.

The disquieting thing is that this war seems to have an inevitable momentum about it, and that all the resolutions, and the inspections and the platitudes are just a tissue thin veil meant to keep the natives of the West quiet enough so the men in power can get on with their agenda.

Much of the electorate of the Western world feels ill-informed, or rather they feel they are being, at the very least, patronised by their leaders, as if it was just ‘too important for the little people to understand’.

My view is that the US led alliance needs to put up or shut up, it needs to provide compelling evidence, and not the spin-doctored statements meant to make us feel good about a new crusade.

36

I just saw a roundtable of former Iraqi arms inspectors on CNN. All of them believe that Iraq still has weapons of mass destruction, and all of them believe that the current inspections are useless. As one pointed out, even during the last inspection regime, which was much bigger than this one, it took them four and a half years to discover Iraq’s biological program. And that was after being allowed into Iraq immediately after the war. Now, Iraq has had four years to hide their WMD. It’s a useless exercise. All of them said that if the inspectors find anything, it will either be because the U.S. has direct intelligence regarding locations which it can give them, or they’ll just get lucky and stumble across something.

But I have my doubts. They might have gotten lucky yesterday - a man with a thick notebook jumped into a U.N. truck and asked for asylum. It may have had all kinds of evidence in it. But we’ll never know, because the inspectors turned the man back over to the Iraqi military without even opening it.

That doesn’t give me a warm feeling about the thoroughness of the inspection regime.

37

Florida stands behind Minnesota, ready to go in about four months - you know, when it’s warm.