# Writerly types, what do you think of this passage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 16, 2010, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888 "2010-07-16T06:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/41 "2010-07-17T02:22:00Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Beginning the sentence with the word “Inside…” softens an otherwise jarring jump of the view from outside the car to inside. It’s **one** word for chrissake. It’s not gonna wear out your eyeballs… More importantly, the knee-jerk dogma of “cut out all unnecessary words” presumes a kind of uniform semantic threshold for sufficient meaning, that is identical for all communication. It ignores so much of the vast array of functions that language serves. If anything smells of a writing class, it’s that. It probably has lingered around for so long probably just because it’s easy to teach in creative writing classes, which are relatively new things in the history of literature. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/42 "2010-07-17T05:12:40Z")
This has turned out to be an interesting and informative thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed to it. I had no idea that in certain circles this kind of writing comprised a style that had its own fans. Perhaps this woman really is a gifted or at least adequate writer and has simply chosen to go with this awful style because it sells. This answer would explain a lot, such as how she’s gotten five novels published, won numerous (or at least a some) awards, obtained work teaching writing classes, and why _Smithereens_ seems to be her most popular novel. There are fans of just about every style of music style so I suppose there could be fans of every style of writing too. At least I can rest easier now knowing at least some sort of plausible answer exists to explain the success of this woman and this book. And thank you, **Dio** , for the tact and consideration you were prepared to show me when you thought I’d written the material quoted in the OP. Heh, it never occurred to me that people might think I’d written all that and was looking for advice. It should have occurred to me but it just didn’t. (And yeah, if you haven’t already discovered it yourself, the apostrophe in the possessive “it’s” was a typo on my part.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/43 "2010-07-17T05:37:53Z")
Seems kind of like she’s trying to be noir-y. I can see what she’s going for, but it’s awkward. I guess if I was rewriting it (not that this is relevant, since I’m not a published writer) – All I could think of was her old black Lincoln Continental discarded like a drained soda can, battered and useless. I imagined that luxury car battered, eviscerated, made useless, and stripped clean of anything of worth or of any sign of Frankie. I guess I could make it a bit longer and overwrought. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/44 "2010-07-17T07:34:02Z")
It’s pretty awful. Among objections noted by others, I just find _way_ too many “had beens” here. If you’re describing a visual _scene_, don’t _tell_ us what happened before we got there. If there’s a hole in the dash, we can deduce that someone has yanked the radio, etcetera. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/45 "2010-07-17T10:20:11Z")
I can maybe see the point the author was going for. The abundance of little details that are noticed and described contrasts with the final line - that “there was not one trace” of Frankie Lane. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/46 "2010-07-17T16:40:20Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Beginning the sentence with the word “Inside…” softens an otherwise jarring jump of the view from outside the car to inside. There’s no known way of saying an English sentence in which you begin a sentence with ‘inside’ and emphasize it. Get me a jury and show me how you can say “inside”, and I’ll go down on you. That’s just idiotic, if you’ll forgive me by saying so. That’s just stupid, “inside”; I’d love to know how you emphasize 'inside"…impossible! Meaningless! ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/47 "2010-07-17T21:07:49Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > There’s no known way of saying an English sentence in which you begin a sentence with ‘inside’ and emphasize it. Get me a jury and show me how you can say “inside”, and I’ll go down on you. That’s just idiotic, if you’ll forgive me by saying so. That’s just stupid, “inside”; I’d love to know how you emphasize 'inside"…impossible! Meaningless! I’m not sure what you mean by emphasizing but here goes: “Outside, I was smiling. Inside, I was crying.” ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/48 "2010-07-17T21:21:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > There’s no known way of saying an English sentence in which you begin a sentence with ‘inside’ and emphasize it. Get me a jury and show me how you can say “inside”, and I’ll go down on you. That’s just idiotic, if you’ll forgive me by saying so. That’s just stupid, “inside”; I’d love to know how you emphasize 'inside"…impossible! Meaningless! Are you suggesting that you cannot begin an English sentence with the word “inside”? And what do you mean by emphasis? Why would you use emphasis to soften a phrase in language? Emphasis is the very opposite of softening. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/49 "2010-07-18T03:40:46Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Apparently, [she writes like](http://iwl.me/) Stephen King. On a side note, I’d like to find out what people at this site think of the “I Write Like” web site that’s linked in the post. I ran a few of my creative writing samples there and got comparisons ranging from James Joyce to Dan Brown (just to name two extreme examples). ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/50 "2010-07-18T03:54:20Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > On a side note, I’d like to find out what people at this site think of the “I Write Like” web site that’s linked in the post. I ran a few of my creative writing samples there and got comparisons ranging from James Joyce to Dan Brown (just to name two extreme examples). Dang, I write like Dan Brown according to that thing too. That could be good or bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/51 "2010-07-18T04:27:16Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Are you suggesting that you cannot begin an English sentence with the word “inside”? [Frozen peas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Peas) ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/52 "2010-07-18T04:50:12Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > On a side note, I’d like to find out what people at this site think of the “I Write Like” web site that’s linked in the post. I ran a few of my creative writing samples there and got comparisons ranging from James Joyce to Dan Brown (just to name two extreme examples). I devoted an [MPSIMs thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=570966) to it. Mostly, we think it writes like David Foster Wallace. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/53 "2010-07-18T06:03:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [Frozen peas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Peas) Aw, that’s a shame. I was hoping you wouldn’t have to link it and spoil the joke. Just know that _someone_ got it, and it was really spectacular. Bravo! As to the OP, I also thought the passage was overdone, as others have said. I’m not at all surprised, however, that she has won awards. That seems to be the style that is gobbled up by literary critics. It has all the invitation and immersion of a shopping list or a bulleted synopsis of a photograph. It’s an easily imitable road to an award, much like a leading lady playing a disfigured character (or wearing no makeup on screen) is an easy road to an Oscar. [QUOTE=Tarwater] William Faulkner is one of my favorite writers. I’ve read everything he’s written. Here’s an exercise: can you tell me the difference between the passage transcribed by the OP and the following? [/quote] A period? Risking sacrilege, that’s damned awful. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/54 "2010-07-18T06:40:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [Frozen peas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Peas) [QUOTE=Orson Wells] There’s no known way of saying an English sentence in which you begin a sentence with ‘in’ and emphasize it. [/QUOTE] Of course this is wrong: A: Did you say that the grunion were going to start running after July? B: No. IN July some’ll’ve already started. AFTER July, though, they taste better. You would have thought that someone like Wells would’ve naturally considered language as part of extended discourse, (not just discrete sentences), before making such a categorical claim. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/55 "2010-07-18T06:59:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [Frozen peas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Peas) [QUOTE=Orson Wells] There’s no known way of saying an English sentence in which you begin a sentence with ‘in’ and emphasize it. [/QUOTE] Of course this is wrong: A: Did you say that the grunion were going to start running after July? B: No. IN July some’ll’ve already started. AFTER July, though, they taste better. You would have thought that someone like Wells would’ve naturally considered language as part of extended discourse, (not just discrete sentences), before making such a categorical claim. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/56 "2010-07-18T07:44:12Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > I devoted an [MPSIMs thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=570966) to it. Mostly, we think it writes like David Foster Wallace. 😉 David Foster Wallace was the writer that came up most often for me, also. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/57 "2010-07-18T08:41:48Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > As to the OP, I also thought the passage was overdone, as others have said. I’m not at all surprised, however, that she has won awards. That seems to be the style that is gobbled up by literary critics. I guess so. Look at these editorial reviews from Amazon’s page on _Smithereens_: “Chehak is a very accomplished storyteller, always in control of her narrative, which moves ahead with grace and speed.” – _The Los Angeles Times, July 23, 1995_ “_Vivid_ [and] intense… SMITHEREENS has brooding, ominous atmosphere, sexual awakening, loss of innocence, murder.” – \*Boston Globe, July 20, 1995 \* “[A] lyrically told story… The narrative surges back and forth like a nighttime tide via flashback, present events and foreshadowing…” – _Publisher’s Weekly, May 8, 1995_ Grace and speed? Lyrical? I never would have believed it if I hadn’t seen it for myself. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888/58 "2010-07-18T15:38:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [Frozen peas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_Peas) Hah! Good one! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writerly-types-what-do-you-think-of-this-passage/546888.md?page=2)