# Writers Guild of America goes on strike (5/2/23) tentative deal (9/25/23) Now accepted (10/9/23)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ai
**Created:** [May 2, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448 "2023-05-02T04:36:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/1 "2023-05-02T04:36:31Z")
The Writers Guild of America has gone on strike as of midnight, and it’s expected that late-night shows will be the first to be affected. Episodic television is written out several weeks to a few months in advance.
[https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/hollywood-writers-studios-stage-last-minute-talks-strike-deadline-looms-2023-05-01/](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/hollywood-writers-studios-stage-last-minute-talks-strike-deadline-looms-2023-05-01/)
I’m curious as to whether professional wrestling writers are part of the strike. They’re not, right?
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/2 "2023-05-02T06:05:22Z")
No, the WGA has no hold over them.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/3 "2023-05-02T06:06:47Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#):
>
> …has no hold…
With a line like that, you could be a Scab! 😁
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/4 "2023-05-02T06:07:09Z")
Are you picking on me?
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/5 "2023-05-02T06:08:17Z")
Noos!
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### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/6 "2023-05-02T06:17:58Z")
What’s the difference between a guild and a union? Serious question.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/7 "2023-05-02T06:22:34Z")
Apparently, guilds represent independent contractors in collective bargaining, while unions represent employees. Thus, the the “guild” name seems to be more common in film and TV, where many artists work on a project basis, rather than as continuing employees: e.g., the Directors Guild of America, and the Screen Actors Guild, as well as the WGA.
[https://scriptmag.com/features/legally-speaking-guild-or-union](https://scriptmag.com/features/legally-speaking-guild-or-union)
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/8 "2023-05-02T06:33:20Z")
The last writers’ guild strike began in November 2007 and ended in February 2008 after 100 days.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/9 "2023-05-02T06:36:43Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> But surely late-night shows are natural, spontaneous conversation–thus no writers would be involved!!!
On his show tonight, Stephen Colbert talked about the strike – he noted that he has an entire staff of WGA writers (including himself), who work on writing his monologues (and, I suspect, helping to script questions for his guests).
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/10 "2023-05-02T12:02:38Z")
One bit I found interesting:
> [@](#):
>
> Artificial intelligence is another issue at the bargaining table. The WGA wants safeguards to prevent studios from using AI to generate new scripts from writers’ previous work. Writers also want to ensure they are not asked to rewrite draft scripts created by AI.
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### Author:  [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/11 "2023-05-02T22:57:13Z")
The first segment of Grace Randolph’s livestream today was on the writer’s strike and include a 2-sheet list of the issues the WGA and the counters from the studios, as well as discussing how much writers really make. My takeaways were that:
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1. It’s going to be a while, they’re very far apart. The changes would cost $469M and the studios’ counter was $89
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1. I think the WGA is a little misguided about streaming. There are request for audience numbers, but without ad support who cares? Even if everyone with Netflix watches Wednesday, they’re getting the same subscriber fee. The benefit for the writers and other production staff is that the show will offer work next year.
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1. The AI stuff was interesting, but that strikes me as more copyright law than the studios.
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### Author:  [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/12 "2023-05-03T00:22:55Z")
According to this article about how the strike might affect Star Trek, animated shows will be unaffected. They fall under The Animation Guild, TAG.
> **[How The Writers Strike Could Impact Star Trek](https://trekmovie.com/2023/05/02/how-the-writers-strike-could-impact-star-trek/)**
>
> The WGA is on strike and Paramount+ needs scripts to keep making Star Trek content.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/13 "2023-05-03T00:56:06Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> One bit I found interesting:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Artificial intelligence is another issue at the bargaining table. The WGA wants safeguards to prevent studios from using AI to generate new scripts from writers’ previous work. Writers also want to ensure they are not asked to rewrite draft scripts created by AI.
Though I must say, using AI to initially generate TV show scripts sounds stupid and counterproductive to me in the first place. TV and film scripts aren’t like low-budget ad copy or shady school-essay mills, where what you want is fast turnaround on infinitely customizable versions of what is essentially standard mediocre boilerplate text.
AIUI, the really expensive pre-filming part of a filming script, and its most crucial aspect, is the part where the writers’ room (and in some cases, as kenobi\_65 noted, the cast) bats it around in discussing how actual humans will react to it. How will this incident advance or delay the storyline of Subplot X that we left hanging three episodes ago? Will this joke about Celebrity A come across as “too soon” or tone-deaf given what just happened with Celebrity B?
A chatbot can certainly generate script drafts that mimic some combination of all the other scripts out there that it’s been trained on, but it can’t do any of the parts that require actual thinking. And since those are AIUI the most critical and expensive parts of script development, why wouldn’t you want to apply them to the best script draft you can get, namely, one that’s been produced by an actual accomplished human writer using actual thought?
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### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/14 "2023-05-03T01:13:45Z")
> [@epbrown](#):
>
> I think the WGA is a little misguided about streaming. There are request for audience numbers, but without ad support who cares?
…nonsense. They aren’t “misguided about streaming.” They know more about how streaming has impacted income than probably anyone else. As for audience numbers: obviously the streaming sites care, and the writers care, and as the only two parties to the negotiation, that’s kinda important.
> [@epbrown](#):
>
> The AI stuff was interesting, but that strikes me as more copyright law than the studios.
Its entirely relevant here because the studios will try to use AI to both cut down on the size of writing rooms, and to “redefine” what it is to be a writer.
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### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/15 "2023-05-03T01:25:58Z")
…this Twitter thread by John Rogers really lays out what is on the line. Rogers was (along with Dean Devlin) showrunner for the original run of Leverage. The most compelling part is this:
>
> [@](#):
>
> 1. The bosses of these companies have stopped caring about whether the shows and movies are profitable — because THEY ARE, we know they are, the companies have made between $28-30 BILLION in profit — PROFIT — _every year for the last five years_.
>
> 2. They’ve decided to chase the classic techbro, financialization metric, the mania of modern Wall Street — growth. Nonstop growth. Something you can base stock options on. But as the man says, the only thing that grows forever is cancer, and even that eventually kills the host.
>
> 3. The new robber barons of Hollywood are on a suicide run. They’ll extract as much wealth out of the system as they can before it crashes, and they’ll beat up the workforce as much as they need to to create “savings” to make Wall Street happy, to stretch out the run.
>
> 4. THIS IS NOT NEW. This is classic vulture capitalism, this is what happened to K-mart, Toys R’ US, this is airline stock buybacks, it’s just moved from hard infrastructure and retail to the information and entertainment world.
The people running the streaming sites don’t know what they are doing. They are burning through _billions_. This is a line-in-the-sand moment. The Guilds have to make a stand here.
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### Author:  [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/16 "2023-05-03T12:49:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#):
>
> They aren’t “misguided about streaming.” They know more about how streaming has impacted income than probably anyone else. As for audience numbers: obviously the streaming sites care, and the writers care, and as the only two parties to the negotiation, that’s kinda important.
I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the WGA is the most knowledgeable about the impact of streaming. The phrasing of the demand for audience numbers actually indicates otherwise.
And the stated concerns about AI seem to reference AI-the-media-buzzword rather than AI-the-technology. The former is incredibly powerful and generates clicks/engagement, the latter is like Tesla’s FSD - possible down the line, but not as close as people think.
Neither of those takes mean I disagree with the WGA - change is needed, and what the studios are doing is typical of modern corporate America; gouging labor while raking in record profits (and compensation). It’s an obviously short-term strategy, but everyone seems to have decided that the reckoning will be someone else’s problem.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/17 "2023-05-03T12:51:27Z")
I’m skeptical that an AI like ChatGPT could write a decent script. Has anyone tried it? I’d like read the results,
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/18 "2023-05-03T13:09:15Z")
> [@epbrown](#):
>
> I think the WGA is a little misguided about streaming. There are request for audience numbers, but without ad support who cares? Even if everyone with Netflix watches Wednesday, they’re getting the same subscriber fee. The benefit for the writers and other production staff is that the show will offer work next year.
Netflix depends on excellent content to keep the subscriber fees coming in. They can’t tie fees directly to any particular show, like ad supported services can, but great shows bring in more money than lousy shows.
Netflix gets to benefit from that show year after year, even shows they cancelled, the same way show owners benefitted from syndication in the olden days. That guy who wants to rewatch 3 seasons of Daredevil twice a year is 100% going to keep paying money to Netflix for that.
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### Author:  [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/19 "2023-05-03T13:10:00Z")
Prompt:
Invent some new characters to star in a TV commercial, that showcases how using ChatGPT to produce movie and tv scripts improves everyone’s lives. Write the script for a 30-second spot.
ChatGPT:
[Scene: A dimly lit room, filled with stressed-out writers, furiously typing away at their keyboards.]
**Narrator (with a sultry voice):** “Are you tired of those late-night writing sessions, desperately trying to come up with the perfect script?”
[Scene transition: A glamorous, confident woman, LEXI, enters the room with a sassy grin, a mysterious yet brilliant man, CHASE, follows.]
**Lexi (with a wink):** “Well, darlings, it’s time to revolutionize your creative process with ChatGPT!”
**Chase (smirking):** “It’s the screenwriter’s dream come true.”
[Scene transition: The room transforms into a lively, modern workspace. Writers are now collaborating with ChatGPT on their devices, exchanging excited glances.]
**Narrator:** “By harnessing the power of ChatGPT, you’ll inject a tantalizing twist into your movie and TV scripts, while saving time and reducing stress.”
[Scene transition: Lexi and Chase toast with champagne as a script materializes in a burst of glitter.]
**Lexi:** “Unleash your inner genius and let ChatGPT do the heavy lifting.”
**Chase (raising his glass):** “To unforgettable stories and satisfied audiences!”
**Narrator (with a chuckle):** “ChatGPT - where creativity and technology make sweet, sweet magic. Try it today, and elevate your writing to new heights!”
[Scene fades to the OpenAI logo, accompanied by a catchy jingle.]
---
### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/20 "2023-05-03T13:22:35Z")
> [@epbrown](#):
>
> I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the WGA is the most knowledgeable about the impact of streaming.
…I said “how streaming has impacted income”, which is what is relevant here. Since the advent of streaming, writers are earning _less_. Many can’t pay rent. The writer for “The Bear” had a negative bank account and a bow-tie bought on credit when he recieved the WGA award for Best Comedy. Most writers are on poverty wages. Seasons have gone from 20 episodes to 10, and they are getting paid for 10, but the workload remains the same.
It’s a shit show. And the studios want it to be even worse.
> [@epbrown](#):
>
> The phrasing of the demand for audience numbers actually indicates otherwise.
How do you know what value you bring to the company if the company keeps that information secret? There is no reason why the studios should be hiding that information.
> [@epbrown](#):
>
> And the stated concerns about AI seem to reference AI-the-media-buzzword rather than AI-the-technology.
It had nothing to do with “the media buzzword.” What the WGA asked for was very specific.
- Regulate the use of artificial intelligence on MBA covered projects
- AI can’t write or rewrite literary material
- AI can’t be used as source material
- MBA covered material can’t be used to train AI.
These aren’t things “coming down the line.” These are things that are happening right now, which is why it was included in the negotiations. This isn’t a copyright issue. It’s a genuine threat to both jobs and intellectual property.
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> I’m skeptical that an AI like ChatGPT could write a decent script. Has anyone tried it? I’d like read the results,
People have tried, and no ChatGPT can’t write a decent script, but “writing a decent script” isn’t the pressing concern.
> [@Rolling Stone](#):
>
> “The writers are very right to be spooked by this,” says programmer and AI consultant Dylan Budnick. “Studios can save a buck, wrangle creative control away from the writers to please advertisers/funders, and focus on editing a pre-written script instead of dealing with a range of voices and takes from a writers’ room.”
>
> Most elements of a screenplay “can all be easily spit out by the models used by OpenAI,” Budnick claims. “The job then becomes reading and editing, which is easily done by whoever has creative control.” Given a prompt such as: “Write me a movie about Spider-Man meeting Batman, include stage directions, suggest actors, soundtrack, etc. Write it in the style of a detective noir film,” the model can generate a roughly 50-page script.
>
> …
>
> Screenwriter Tyler Hisel, who’s worked in the entertainment industry for more than 15 years, says he sees AI generators as “the unifying existential issue” in the Writers Guild’s recent negotiations with the studios.
>
> “A lot of writers are looking at that and saying, ‘We don’t want this profession to just be cleaning up drafts written by ChatGPT in the future,’” Hisel says. “There’s something to be said for protecting the business of this profession and for these studios to protect the value of human expression. A good screenplay is more than just a logical plot, it’s something that strikes at those intangible things within us.”
> **[Why Striking Hollywood Writers Fear an AI Future](https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/wga-strike-hollywood-writers-ai-artificial-intelligence-chatgpt-screenplay-technology-1234728014/)**
>
> The WGA strike is now underway, and a key reason negotiations fell apart is the film and TV industries’ refusal to budge on the potential use of AI.
I’ll point to my example of the Leftovers script in the other AI thread. (Spoilers for the Leftovers finale, CW suicide) The resolution of that story-arc is simply something that an AI would be capable of. Not if the “writers room” is being driven by editors cleaning up AI drafts.
> [@The Open Letter to "Pause All AI Development"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-letter-to-pause-all-ai-development/981862/212):
>
> …which of course, is the entire point of the strike. The writers can’t allow this to happen because, and I’m not being hyperbolic here, if they do, it will destroy the film and television industry as we know it. As I posted in the other thread: This isn’t really about “Artificial Intelligence” at all. This isn’t really “AI.” Its the “classic techbro” mania for non-stop growth. The modern era of robber barons, of unrestrained capitalism. When somebody said earlier in the thread that “the pr…
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