# Writers Guild of America goes on strike (5/2/23) tentative deal (9/25/23) Now accepted (10/9/23) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ai\ **Created:** [May 2, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448 "2023-05-02T04:36:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/281 "2023-09-18T00:37:43Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If you are talking about picket lines? Then yes, that is justified as well. It’s _always_ been the case. They are on the picket lines, right now, outside the studios, even though there _are no writers or actors on set any more_. If you think that pickets should have different rules, either set by the union or by the law, that’s something that would probably be more relevant to discuss in the other union thread. Because those “activist jerks” didn’t do anything wrong either by the rules, or the law. Yes, that was the argument. As I said earlier, after learning more about the issues at stake for the writers, I’m no longer sure I fully support the proposition that the WGA was overreaching in shutting down the production, and it’s certainly not the hill I’m willing to die on here. But that, finally, is an honest representation of what the argument indeed was. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/282 "2023-09-18T00:43:42Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Depends what you mean by “the studio”. King Size Productions, owned by Michelle and Robert King, _ **is** _ the studio. …when most of us are referring to “the studios” here, we are referring to the AMPTP. NBC Universal, Paramount, Sony, Netflix, Amazon, Apple and Warner Bros. Discovery are the “Class A” members of the AMPTP. > [@wolfpup](#): > > But that, finally, is an **honest** representation of what the argument indeed was. I have _no_ idea what you mean by this. Both myself and others in this thread have been engaging you in good faith. There is no “finally” about it. Every post I’ve made to you here have been direct responses to things you have said. > [@wolfpup](#): > > the WGA was overreaching in shutting down the production The WGA didn’t shut down this production. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/283 "2023-09-18T01:16:40Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But FTR, none of this has anything to do with my original point, which was solely that writers almost certainly were _ **not** _ on the set of _Evil_ when it was shut down. That argument then got digressed seven ways to Sunday, but that was the sole point I was making in that context. The sole point? If that’s all you’re saying now, okay, but this is how it all started: > [@wolfpup](#): > > Nevertheless, unions really piss me off when they become perniciously malicious far beyond the bounds of their legitimate concerns. > … > But here’s what happened with _Evil_. The writers, Michelle and Robert King, had been finished with the script for a long time, and in fact, filming was nearly complete in May for the scheduled summer release. SAG-AFTRA was two months away from their own strike. So what was the problem? What happened? > > What happened was that three WGA activist jerks set up a mini picket line and managed to halt production for six hours, while the crew waited patiently and didn’t want to cross the “picket line”, if that’s what you can call three hooligans with no legitimate business being there. Eventually the crew gave up. Filming was cancelled and never resumed. That was the end of that. Two months later, SAG-AFTRA also went on strike, but by that time filming would have long been completed and the series would be airing. > > The point here being that the WGA is doing a lot more than just their legitimate right to take writers out on strike – they want to disrupt all film production, whether it has anything to do with them or not. And that’s not right. “perniciously malicious.” “activist jerks.” “hooligans with no legitimate business.” “that’s not right.” Your original point didn’t even mention writers’ presence on the set (probably because you didn’t realize how writers work on television, which, neither did I). Your original point was very different. If the “sole point” you’re making now is that you don’t think writers were on the set when it was shut down–if you’re no longer making a point about malicious behavior by jerk hooligans engaged in illegitimate business–I appreciate the clarification. Because I’ve been arguing against a completely different point–the one you started with. Edit: Not that it makes a material difference, but now I’m curious. During the picket, do we know where the Kings were? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/284 "2023-09-18T01:50:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your original point didn’t even mention writers’ presence on the set (probably because you didn’t realize how writers work on television, which, neither did I). Your original point was very different. The fact that you didn’t quote it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. To wit, > [@wolfpup](#): > > The writers, Michelle and Robert King, had been finished with the script for a long time, and in fact, filming was nearly complete in May for the scheduled summer release. I don’t see how anyone can read that initial post that started all the kerfuffle and come to any different conclusion than what I’m now describing, that I was objecting to the WGA shutting down production because there were no writers involved at that point. It turns out, as we now all know, that I was almost certainly correct about “no writers involved” but for the wrong reasons. Writers quite probably would have been on set under normal circumstances, but they weren’t because they were all on strike. It amounts to the same thing: writers weren’t there, and production was carrying on without them, in much the same manner as a business will sometimes carry on despite a strike by having management partially substitute for absent workers. What you mainly seem to dislike, judging by your quotes, is the provocative language I used. In retrospect, that was a poor choice and probably helped to contribute to the rancor of the subsequent discussion, and I’m sorry for that. Hey, I never claimed to be a diplomat (I’d be really lousy at the job!). In becoming more informed about the underlying factors behind the strike, I’m not even sure I fully support my original position, either, and I acknowledged that earlier. I still can’t shake the feeling that there’s something of a scorched-earth policy there, though: “shut the bastards down, shut everything down, whether it has anything to do with our workers or not”. But at any rate, I hope that provides some clarity and puts us more or less on the same page here. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Edit: Not that it makes a material difference, but now I’m curious. During the picket, do we know where the Kings were? I sure don’t. Robert has done a prolific amount of Twittering, but has been rather curiously silent about the _Evil_ production shutdown. He also directed remotely (from home) for a time, but that was when he had COVID, which I think was a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/285 "2023-09-18T01:56:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The fact that you didn’t quote it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. Say what now? Go back and look at the bit that I quoted. And part of why I asked about where the Kings were is because they were the writers and showrunners. If they were on set, then writers were on set. And as @Banquet_Bear has explained, the writers’ job isn’t a one-off thing. > [@wolfpup](#): > > What you mainly seem to dislike, judging by your quotes, is the provocative language I used. I mean, I dislike your raising a wrong point to criticize a union that I support, but also the highly insulting language is problematic. The sort of language you used about this union has been used for centuries now to denigrate workers and attack their organizing efforts. If you’ll do better at avoiding that sort of highly insulting language, it will definitely make it easier to discuss the ways that your point is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/286 "2023-09-18T01:57:44Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > that it was objecting to the WGA shutting down production … the WGA didn’t shut down the production. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/287 "2023-09-18T02:06:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … the WGA didn’t shut down the production. OK. So what I think happened was the following sequence of events: 1. Production was ongoing. 2. WGA pickets showed up. 3. Production paused during the picketing. 4. Pickets didn’t go away. 5. Production was abandoned. 6. One of the picketers, Starlee Kine, announced the following on Twitter: “WE WON. Evil (the show) shut down around 1 am. A handful of us walking in a tiny circle cost them the day’s shoot. We were told the producers were pissed They kept the crew there for hours, sitting on the sidewalk. We felt the solidarity. We’ll win this whole thing together.” What part of this is incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/288 "2023-09-18T02:11:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > What part of this is incorrect? …the part where you are claiming that the WGA shut down production. The only statement we have on the record is that production wrapped early “due to a personal family matter involving one of the actors on the show”. Did members of the WGA picket at the set of Evil? Sure. Did members of the IATSE choose not to cross the line? Sure. Thats literally what happens on a strike. But the WGA didn’t shut down production. That is something that they don’t have the power to do. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/289 "2023-09-19T03:56:48Z")
Maher has backed down. > **[Bill Maher Delays Start of ‘Real Time,’ Citing Strike Negotiations](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/bill-maher-real-time-delay-writers-strike-1235726462/)** > > Bill Maher reversed course on bringing 'Real Time' back into production during the writers strike, citing new talks > [@](#): > > “My decision to return to work was made when it seemed nothing was happening and there was no end in sight to this strike,” he said via social media. “Now that both sides have agreed to go back to the negotiating table I’m going to delay the return of ‘Real Time,’ for now, and hope they can finally get this done.” Translation: Drew chickened out and now I don’t have anyone to blame my assholishness on ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/290 "2023-09-19T08:34:37Z")
I wonder if his writers will even come back after what he said about them. Which is basically they are not entitled to a living wage. If my boss told me that I would quit that same day and never look back. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/291 "2023-09-19T11:44:08Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I wonder if his writers will even come back after what he said about them. Which is basically they are not entitled to a living wage. What did he say that makes you think that? I can’t see anything in his words that suggest as much. He did say that by by putting his show on without the need for writers he could ensure that other non-writer staff would get paid. That doesn’t seem like the act of someone opposed to people making a living wage. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/292 "2023-09-19T11:46:50Z")
I don’t remember where I saw the quote from. But it went something like this: “These writers seem to think they are entitled to a living wage. They aren’t.” Maybe he said it on his podcast? IDK. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/293 "2023-09-19T11:48:18Z")
I think it would be important to know actually what was said and in what context. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/294 "2023-09-19T11:49:29Z")
You’re free to disregard my post if you like. I’m just trying to have a casual conversation here. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/295 "2023-09-19T11:57:17Z")
Standard practice is that if you claim someone holds a specific opinion then it is perfectly fair to be challenged on that. Especially when it seems like a very surprising opinion. What you claim he said seems very much at odds with what he’s said elsewhere so I’m interested to know if that is what he actually said. If you are no longer claiming he said it then I’ll happily disregard your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/296 "2023-09-19T11:57:52Z")
The quote and context: > **[Bill Maher Says Writers Are Not ‘Owed A Living,’ As Hollywood And Other U.S....](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2023/09/06/bill-maher-says-writers-are-not-owed-a-living-as-hollywood-and-other-us-labor-strikes-move-full-steam-ahead/?sh=1fc8f94729b3)** > > Labor unrest and workers’ strike threats are proliferating throughout numerous industries. > In the [latest episode](https://youtu.be/WUSWY6t4sqw?si=P245ZJMqZPmt0a7-) of his podcast _Club Random_, host Bill Maher objects to the ethos behind the Writers Guild of America strike. > > “What I find objectionable about the philosophy of the strike [is] it seems to be, they have really morphed a long way from 2007’s strike, where they kind of believe that you’re owed a living as a writer—and you’re not,” said Maher about the WGA’s terms sent forth to the Alliance of Motion Pictures and Television Producers. He added, “This is show business. This is the make-or-miss league.” He seems to say they’re not owed a living as a writer, not that they’re not owed a living wage. To me that seems a subtle but relevant difference. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/297 "2023-09-19T12:03:30Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > He seems to say they’re not owed a living as a writer, not that they’re not owed a living wage. To me that seems a subtle but relevant difference. Thank you for the link. Yes, I think that difference is very relevant and it is important that we hold people to what they actually say. And I agree with him, no-one has a right to make a living as a writer. Of course, if they _are_ employed as a writer then they very much _do_ have a right to a living wage (but that was not was Maher was saying, nor could I ever imagine him seriously suggesting it) ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/298 "2023-09-19T12:06:14Z")
For the record, when I searched for it, I found MANY places misquoting him as saying the writers aren’t owed a living wage. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/299 "2023-09-19T12:09:23Z")
People in the media purposefully or merely lazily or reflexively misrepresenting or misquoting what their perceived opponent has said in order to score points or paint them in a negative way!!! Say it ain’t so. I’m shocked, shocked I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448/300 "2023-09-19T12:56:42Z")
It’s a very silly thing for him to say, regardless. Of course they’re not “owed a living as a writer.” They’re not suggesting they are. What they ARE claiming is that **if studios want writers** , they’re gonna have to ensure the writers are paid appropriately. And they’re also claiming that if studios want writers now, they’re gonna have to ensure that AI built on the work of said writers isn’t used in the future as a cheap replacement for actual writers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writers-guild-of-america-goes-on-strike-5-2-23-tentative-deal-9-25-23-now-accepted-10-9-23/983448.md?page=16)