# Writing recent-historical fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107 "2011-10-09T20:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/1 "2011-10-09T20:48:42Z")
What are the legalities of writing a work of “historical” fiction about the recent past? For example, a novel that takes place in the Bush White House, in which some characters are real and some fictional . . . and in which most of the action and dialog are purely fictional? To take an extreme example, suppose part of the plot involved an affair between Bush and Condoleezza Rice (using their actual names)? Does a disclaimer adequately protect the author from law suits? If it doesn’t, suppose I change people’s names, yet it’s still obvious who the names are referring to? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/2 "2011-10-09T21:36:06Z")
They’re public figures and this is a work of fiction, so write away! Do you think Bush granted permission for Oliver Stone to do **W**? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/3 "2011-10-09T22:40:11Z")
I think you probably need some help writing up a good disclaimer, but not no much with writing the plot or dialog. There’s tons of fiction written about the “near past”, and has been for quite a while. Legal concerns do not seem to be an impediment at all. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/4 "2011-10-09T22:45:41Z")
[The Obama Diaries by Laura Ingraham](http://www.hebookservice.com/products/bookpage.asp?prod_cd=C7610) > [@](#): > > Gems from the diaries of: > > Joe Biden: “An entire day has gone by and not a single gaffe from me. Of course, I wasn’t let out of the White House compound all day, either.” > > Barack Obama on Rush Limbaugh: “His show would be a lot better if he read conservative thinkers like Peggy Noonan, David Brooks, and Chris Buckley. These are fair-minded conservatives, people who are happy to adjust their opinions for a White House Christmas party invitation.” > > Obama on Arizona’s new immigration law: “Just got word from Rahm that the Arizona law is already having its intended effect! He tells me that many of the undocumented citizens there are already starting to self-deport back to their home countries! This is a nightmare. Plouffe says we need all the newly registered Democrat voters we can get in 2012, and that includes the 460,000 estimated to live in Arizona.” > > Obama on having gone to church: “I see that the AP and WashPo already published great pieces on the web about my hero’s welcome at Allen Chapel. Soon, like St. John the Baptist, I’ll be rising again. . .in the polls! I can feel it. Take that, Sean Hannity!” > > Michelle Obama on Reverend Wright: “I’ll never forget when Reverend Jeremiah taught us that the women who went to Jesus’s tomb were the first community organizers.” > > Barack Obama on his socialist program: “We now control cars, health care, banks, and soon the entire financial services industry. Next stop: the global market! I really should have transferred from the Harvard Law School to the Business School. Who would have imagined that a community organizer would someday be a captain of EVERY industry?” > > Russia’s Vladimir Putin on how to deal with American liberals: “Prey on their guilty feelings. Talk about their favorite issues – like climate change, or helping the poor. Make them believe that all we Soviets Russians have ever wanted was brotherhood among the nations. And at the same time, keep making demands. Whenever they yield on one point, simply ask for something else. Never let them feel that their guilt has been expiated.” > > Obama on his meeting with auto industry leaders: “You know what I told those fat cats? Some things are more important than what Americans want to buy. Things like community and climate change and that episode of Entourage where Drama thinks he has no friends until the guys throw him a big surprise party at the end. We have to be concerned about each other and buy things that advance the common good.” > > Obama on the Tea Partiers: “Those Tea Baggers won’t be able to weather the storm I’ve prepared for them. The tactics we have set in motion are unbelievable. They put me through hell over the last year. Now it’s their turn. First, we rammed the Health Care Bill down their miserable throats; now we’re discrediting them faster than the Palin clan can clean out a room full of swag bags!” You can’t libel a public figure. Period. Literally nothing you can imagine is out of bounds, except for direct threats of violence. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/5 "2011-10-10T02:18:42Z")
But how about minor characters who aren’t, strictly speaking, “public” figures? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/6 "2011-10-10T03:02:55Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > But how about minor characters who aren’t, strictly speaking, “public” figures? Every single person connected to the Bush White House is, strictly speaking, a public figure. If they would be recognizable by your fiction, this is beyond obvious. Not that it matters, legally, whether they would be recognized or not, but you aren’t giving any examples that would be even slightly in the gray area. If you had an elevator operator anally raping Condoleezza Rice, then maybe. But have Colin Powell do it and your only problem would be finding a publisher who’s as big an idiot as you. And sales rather than legality would be the concern. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/7 "2011-10-10T03:16:28Z")
If you can find early 1970s copies of the _National Lampoon_, check out what they were doing in their monthly “Mrs. Agnew’s Diary” column… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/8 "2011-10-10T03:27:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Every single person connected to the Bush White House is, strictly speaking, a public figure. If they would be recognizable by your fiction, this is beyond obvious. Not that it matters, legally, whether they would be recognized or not, but you aren’t giving any examples that would be even slightly in the gray area. If you had an elevator operator anally raping Condoleezza Rice, then maybe. But have Colin Powell do it and your only problem would be finding a publisher who’s as big an idiot as you. And sales rather than legality would be the concern. Disclaimer: IANALawyer. You’re making too many assumptions here. Spouses and children of White House officials are not necessarily public figures. And if you write a conversation between… Colin Powell and a fictional son, for example, depending on what words you put in theirs mouths I could see some concern about something like that. and of course depending on whether Powell actually has a son (I have no idea). I would say the OP needs to be a whole lot more careful about making up personalities, words, and scenes for real people who AREN’T public figures. Better to avoid them entirely and make it clear that some of your characters are entirely fictional. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/9 "2011-10-10T03:58:35Z")
Harry Turtledove in the “Homeward Bound” alternate history novel did not mention Henry Kissinger by name and killed off the character shortly after even that indirect mention. Turtledove also wrote “In the Presence of Mine Enemies”, an alternate history novel in which the Nazis won WW II. The elderly Fuhrer in the novel is named Kurt Haldweim, I assume to avoid legal troubles. Kurt Waldheim was alive when the novel was published. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/10 "2011-10-10T12:32:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Disclaimer: IANALawyer. > > You’re making too many assumptions here. Spouses and children of White House officials are not necessarily public figures. And if you write a conversation between… Colin Powell and a fictional son, for example, depending on what words you put in theirs mouths I could see some concern about something like that. and of course depending on whether Powell actually has a son (I have no idea). > > I would say the OP needs to be a whole lot more careful about making up personalities, words, and scenes for real people who AREN’T public figures. Better to avoid them entirely and make it clear that some of your characters are entirely fictional. No. While people who aren’t public figures have a lower bar to prove libel, they would have no case. Remember, libel is a false statement _of fact._ Thus, anything you say in a novel is defensible because a novel is not a factual account and no one takes it as such. You also can’t libel someone in something that is opinion. You can say, “He reminds me of a child molester” because that’s stating an opinion. Now, people threaten libel when there’s really no case for it. Sometimes it’s an empty threat. Other times, it’s that they can afford lawyers and you can’t (or you publisher is not willing to pay for them). But once it gets to court, the fact that it is not a factual statement puts all the ammunition in the author’s hands. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-recent-historical-fiction/599107/11 "2011-10-10T16:30:58Z")
To follow up on what Chuck said, and also on what I said earlier. They don’t have a legal case for anything that the OP is talking about. Forget all these ifs and buts and what abouts. Do publishers care whether you have a legal right to do so? Not in the slightest. They care about one thing and one thing only: not getting sued. Getting sued costs piles of money. Publishers will try to insert a clause in your contract making you totally liable for the costs of any suit, but no experienced author will let them get away with this. So they have to share the burden. And they have legal staffs who will look at the content and say “they might sue” and force to to take it out or change it if you want to get published. This has nothing to do with law and everything to do with money. The fact that almost nobody ever really sues is irrelevant. There’s always that one guy who sues everybody. Don’t let anything stand between you and making the maximum amount of money shall be the whole of the law.