# Writing Styles **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430 "2001-10-30T02:51:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/1 "2001-10-30T02:51:47Z")
What seems to work better? First person narration, Third person narration, or Third person omniscient(\*) narration (where the narrator knows more than the main character would know.) (\*) I think this is the term. - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![Daowajan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Daowajan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daowajan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/2 "2001-10-30T03:13:15Z")
It all depends. What are you writing? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/3 "2001-10-30T03:21:38Z")
I agree with **Daowajan**. The narrative voice should fit the story being told and, ideally, contribute to it in such a way as to make the reader feel the story couldn’t be told any other way. Good examples of storytelling in which the narrative voice is inextricable from the story being told: [li]_The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman_ by Laurence Sterne[/li][li]“Spotted Horses” by William Faulkner[/li][li]_The Mezzanine_ by Nicholson Baker[/li]_Bright Lights, Big City_ by Jay McInerney (caveat: I’m recommending this based upon a friend’s recommendation, I have not gotten around to reading it yet myself) ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/4 "2001-10-30T03:22:38Z")
What about second person narration? Nobody expects second person narration. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/5 "2001-10-30T03:25:22Z")
All work and all fail, depending on the writer. And those three categories of point of view don’t begin to describe the various options you have. For instance: First person participant – The narrator tells events that happen to him. First person observer – The narrator tells of events he witnessed but did not take part in. First person storyteller – The narrator tells a tale, but is recounting events he had nothing to do with. First person, multiple POV – used generally in novels, where sever first person narrators take place. First person, epistlatory, single POV – In the form of letters from one person. First person epistlatory, multiple POV – Letters from more than one person. First person, omnscient – first-person who knows everything. The only case of this I have seen was Kate Wilhelm’s “Margaret and I.” Second person – rare, but can be used occasionally if you know what you’re doing (Theodore Sturgeon’s “The Man Who Lost the Sea”). Not recommended for a beginner. Third person, single POV – Describes the events happening to the character, but only through the character’s eyes. Third person, multiple POV – Switches from character to character (best to stick with a single POV per scene). Third person, omniscent – very rarely used, since it’s rare that everyone knows everything. Third person, camera eye – Events are described without a point of view. First person is harder to bring off, since it’s difficult to create a voice. It also eliminates suspense, since suspense involves the audience knowing something the character doesn’t. Probably the best for a beginning writer is third person, single POV – describe the events through the eyes of the main character, but in the third person. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/6 "2001-10-30T13:26:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > What about second person narration? Nobody expects second person narration. From what I’m told, that’s the fascination of _Bright Lights, Big City_. I plan to start reading this soon, so I’ll be a better judge then. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/7 "2001-10-30T14:09:20Z")
> [@](#): > > What about second person narration? Nobody expects second person narration. There’s a reason for that. It’s **very** hard to do. You need to have the right type of story, and the use of the second person has to seem natural and not contrived. There are very few situations where it works. I once was in a creative writing course where a writer tried playing with these things. The first chapter was in the first person – plural (“We sat at the table. We drank beer”). The second chapter was in the second person. The third chapter was in the third person. I was curious to see how he would continue the progression for the fourth chapter, but, he never showed that to us (the technical aspects or writing in the fourth person are daunting 🙂 ). I wrote a story in the first person plural as an exercise. It worked, but didn’t quite sell. ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/8 "2001-10-30T14:40:40Z")
I agree with **RealityChuck** , about third-person, single POV being the best place for a beginner. I would also like add the following subjective points: (1) First-person narrative should be used only when there is a reason to invoke the sense of the narrator speaking directly to the reader; that is, when the story conveys very “personal” experiences which would lose their intensity in a third-person narration. This means either: (a) the story has to be “intensely personal” enough to be carried by one point of view throughout, which can be difficult to do for lengthy works; or (b) the writer must be skilled enough to use first-person narration for several different characters. (2) My personal style is typically third-person, multiple POV overall, but I tend to stick to one POV early in the story (novel) then “branch out” as the story develops. The reader becomes familiar with the main character and his/her main storyline as an anchor, but the story is not limited only to those situations and events which the main character experiences. In the kind of stories I write, it is rare for one character to be involved/present in all aspects of the plot, but I don’t want to lose my reader by introducing many different points of view early on. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/9 "2001-10-31T08:44:59Z")
Personally, I wrote a couple stories that I (and my CW classes) liked quite a bit in second person. They were good, IMHO, but in a later CW class, I showed it to the prof and he recommended that I rewrite it in first person. Much to my chagrin/dissapointment, it did turn out better that way. (Of course, one could argue that at that point I was a better writer overall. Then again, anyone who’s read my stuff would probably say that I _still_ sucked and that any progression of mine is imagined and therefore irrelevant.) ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/10 "2001-10-31T08:49:01Z")
What? I’m supposed to keep the same tense throughout a paragraph? A sentence even? Madness, I say! ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2001, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/11 "2001-10-31T11:39:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\*What about second person narration? Nobody expects second person narration. \*\* I write in the second person…see? This one earned me an A in writing class from a professor who didn’t hide his contempt for the majority of our work. (hell, at least I wasn’t told “this is interesting, but it’s not a story.” Twice. Ouch, huh?) [http://www.geocities.com/theevilwriter/funeral.html](http://www.geocities.com/theevilwriter/funeral.html) I’ll have to agree, though, it really depends on your aim. First person is more personal, but you have to be selective about why you use it; if the character is too much like you you’re in danger of writing an autobiography, not fiction. There’s also the trap of telling instead of showing…However, it’s often much more interesting that 3rd person. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/12 "2001-11-01T03:57:16Z")
My understanding is that 2nd person should be kept to short works because we generally have a tough time reading it. A first time author should stick with 3rd person, single POV (though I confess I did multiple POV with my first novel). A new author is still learning how to write, so there’s\* no reason to make it more difficult than it already is. _There is/are is a no-no, btw, outside of dialogue. You can nearly_\* always rewrite sentences with there is/are much better. \*\*Of course, rules are made to be broken. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/13 "2001-11-01T04:35:04Z")
What do you call narration from a character who is a minor participant in the story, but the main character is someone else? As an example, I point you to the second half of the Book of Acts. Luke accompanies Paul & the other apostles on many of their, uh, _adventures_ and writes about them as if he was there; because he **was** there. However, at no point does Luke make himself the focal point of the narration; it’s always Paul or whoever. “ **We** did this,” and “ **We** did that.” Imagine _Star Wars_ from the point of view of, say, C-3PO. “…Master Luke, R2D2, the old man and I approached the cantina; two drunken Jawas slumped on the ground just outside the door. I feared that Master Luke wasn’t ready for whatever awaited him inside; he was a simple farm boy, of course. But with the old man by his side, Master Luke seemed confident that no harm would come to him…” Can anyone name a story with this type of narration? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/14 "2001-11-01T04:58:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > > What about second person narration? Nobody expects second person narration. > > From what I’m told, that’s the fascination of _Bright Lights, Big City_. I plan to start reading this soon, so I’ll be a better judge then. 🙂 \*\* It is a voice that perfectly suits the novel, cleverly leveraged by use of the historical present tense a la _Nostradamus_, I mean Damon Runyon. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/15 "2001-11-01T05:38:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rastahomie \* > \*\*Can anyone name a story with this type of narration? \*\* _The Great Gatsby_ is the first example that springs to mind. I don’t know if there’s a technical term for that kind of narration, though… ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/16 "2001-11-01T13:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Katisha_ > I don’t know if there’s a technical term for that kind of narration, though… **RealityChuck** ’s “third person observer” would come pretty close, though. For a fun take on a third person plural narrator, check out a story by Donald Barthelme called “Some of Us Had Been Threatening Our Friend Colby.” [Last time I recommended it on these boards](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=66234), someone found it online, so it may still be out there. I don’t have it handy, but IIRC, it’s almost entirely told in third person plural. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/17 "2001-11-01T17:13:07Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I was curious to see how he would continue the progression for the fourth chapter, but, he never showed that to us (the technical aspects or writing in the fourth person are daunting 🙂 ). \*\* Excuse me? ::raises hand:: I have a degree in Journalism with a minor in English. I have never heard of FOURTH person. What the hell? Could you please explain what you mean by that? First person: I, we Second person: you, you (plural), Y’all (Southern) Third person: He, she, it, they, them, etc. Fourth person??? Wait. Were you kidding? ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/18 "2001-11-01T17:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogzilla \* > \*\* > Excuse me? ::raises hand:: > > I have a degree in Journalism with a minor in English. I have never heard of FOURTH person. What the hell? Could you please explain what you mean by that? > > First person: I, we > Second person: you, you (plural), Y’all (Southern) > Third person: He, she, it, they, them, etc. > > Fourth person??? > > Wait. Were you kidding? \*\* Fourth person narrative: And so begins our story of Jane, Mary, Donna and Emma, but as this is a fourth person narrative, we’ll only concern ourselves with Emma. See? Simple. What do they teach you English majors these days? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/19 "2001-11-01T17:56:36Z")
Oh, that was bad, **throatshot** , very bad! 😉 I should point out to **Dogzilla** that “y’all” is second person singular. “All y’all” is second person plural. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/writing-styles/90430/20 "2001-11-01T18:16:24Z")
**Dogzilla** – to quote Red Skelton: “I just do 'em. I don’t explain 'em.”