# WSoP Ivey muck... **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 28, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474 "2009-10-28T17:14:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/1 "2009-10-28T17:14:51Z")
So last night on ESPN the WSoP, Phil Ivey mucks a winning flush hand at the showdown. Whatever happened, and I’ll give a hand recap below, but yesterday would’ve been the first time Phil saw what he did. Has anyone seen a comment by Phil today? From:[here](http://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/10/the-wsop-main-event-on-espn-the-one-where-ivey-mucks-a-winne-7460.htm#at) > [@](#): > > In the sure-to-be-legendary hand in question, Ivey opened pocket eights from under-the-gun for 320,000. The action folded around to Jordan Smith, who three-bet to 1,000,000 straight from the big blind. Ivey called and they saw a {Q-Hearts}{10-Spades}{5-Spades} flop. Both players checked and the {Q-Spades} fell on the turn. Check-check again. The river was the {A-Spades} – check-check a third time. Smith opened up his {A-Diamonds}{9-Clubs} for aces up, but Ivey mucked his spade flush, clearly not realizing he held the {8-Spades}. I don’t think it’s that clear. Because it’s possible Ivey thought Smith’s 9 was a spade. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/2 "2009-10-28T18:24:12Z")
> [@FlightlessBird](#): > > So last night on ESPN the WSoP, Phil Ivey mucks a winning flush hand at the showdown. Whatever happened, and I’ll give a hand recap below, but yesterday would’ve been the first time Phil saw what he did. Has anyone seen a comment by Phil today? > From:[here](http://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/10/the-wsop-main-event-on-espn-the-one-where-ivey-mucks-a-winne-7460.htm#at) > > I don’t think it’s that clear. Because it’s possible Ivey thought Smith’s 9 was a spade. I saw the episode last night. IMO, Ivey didn’t know he had a flush. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/3 "2009-10-28T21:39:02Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I saw the episode last night. IMO, Ivey didn’t know he had a flush. I saw it too and thought the same thing. I doubt that he could possibly misread the other player’s card after being upturned. It’s far more likely that he forgot that he had a spade versus a club. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/4 "2009-10-29T11:08:28Z")
Sometimes I wonder in these instances if ESPN ever screws up the hands - maybe he had the eights on a different hand and they edited it into this one by mistake. Because it seems like a very unlikely mistake. On the other hand, Ivey was sleep deprived in this time frame… the cash games are really during WSOP season and so he’d spend 10-12 hours at the main event and then go play the big game for the rest of the night and maybe work some sleep in there occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/5 "2009-10-29T11:46:46Z")
Alternate theory: Phil always has huge goofy side bets going on everything, so I wouldn’t be completely surprised if he bet someone that he could muck the winning hand on a big pot and still make the final table. That explanation has sort of a stupid appeal to it. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/6 "2009-10-29T16:01:15Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Sometimes I wonder in these instances if ESPN ever screws up the hands - maybe he had the eights on a different hand and they edited it into this one by mistake. Because it seems like a very unlikely mistake. I don’t really find this mistake unlikely at all - just unlikely that it happened to a “name” player at a TV table during the Main Event. I’ve seen players muck winning hands _many_ times in both cash games and tournaments - and have even done it myself once or twice. I’ve also seen people mis-call their hands many many times. This is even without the sleep deprivation that must be going on during the WSOP. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/7 "2009-10-29T20:27:48Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I don’t really find this mistake unlikely at all - just unlikely that it happened to a “name” player at a TV table during the Main Event. I’ve seen players muck winning hands _many_ times in both cash games and tournaments - and have even done it myself once or twice. I’ve also seen people mis-call their hands many many times. > > This is even without the sleep deprivation that must be going on during the WSOP. I imagine this sort of thing happens all the time - you just never see it happen to the best player in the world on national television. The real question is - when exactly did he find out about it? Did ESPN give him a call and tell him? Maybe just a heads-up text message, “Hey Phil - might want to watch tonight.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/8 "2009-10-30T17:40:38Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Alternate theory: Phil always has huge goofy side bets going on everything, so I wouldn’t be completely surprised if he bet someone that he could muck the winning hand on a big pot and still make the final table. That explanation has sort of a stupid appeal to it. I don’t think so. This is the big one and he is not sitting on the biggest stack. It would be really stupid to do that. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/9 "2009-10-30T21:05:00Z")
His side bet action is way bigger than the money he’ll take home from the series, even if he wins it. When the guy was down to the final 30 or 20 in the main event - his big shot to solidify his legend - he couldn’t wait to get out of there so he could go play at the big game. And that’s with rumors out there that he put significant bets on himself at 1000:1 or better to win the series from before it started. Chances are he’ll win more money from those bets than the 10 or 11 million that first place gets from the tournament. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/10 "2009-10-30T22:11:17Z")
But you forget about the implied odds of winning the WSOP Main Event. His endorsement and sponsorship money will go through the roof. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/11 "2009-10-30T22:13:49Z")
He won’t do any sort of endorsements for poker related stuff outside out full tilt, since he’s a 10% owner there. I don’t think he’s going to make a big leap and get big endorsement contracts for for non-poker related stuff. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/12 "2009-11-11T19:09:34Z")
To answer my question. On the final-table telecast they asked him the question I wanted answered and he admitted that he didn’t think he had a spade in his hand. He went on to say that he’s received a heapload of shit from just about everyone he knows. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/13 "2009-11-11T19:23:39Z")
Didn’t he also admit that he didn’t see four spades on the board? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/14 "2009-11-12T08:15:25Z")
> [@FlightlessBird](#): > > To answer my question. On the final-table telecast they asked him the question I wanted answered and he admitted that he didn’t think he had a spade in his hand. > He went on to say that he’s received a heapload of shit from just about everyone he knows. Saw the interview as well. He was pretty upfront and good natured about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wsop-ivey-muck/515474/15 "2009-11-13T03:52:24Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Saw the interview as well. He was pretty upfront and good natured about it. Indeed he was. Hey, it really can happen to anyone.