# WTC Collapse: Need airtight answer please! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226 "2014-01-31T19:14:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/81 "2014-02-01T05:48:00Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I don’t understand this. Just because he’s specialized means he can’t comment on gravity and what it can and can’t do? Isn’t that physics 101? comment on gravity? Do you understand the weight of the building above the impact area? It was over a million lbs of weight on a damaged structure subjected to heat. What don’t you understand? what part of[this picture](http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5459/522/1600/6-1_wtc1-impact-hole.0.jpg) with the missing supports are you in doubt of? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/82 "2014-02-01T06:01:28Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > If the puffs of smoke are demolition charges, why do they happen after the collapse starts? > > If the puffs of smoke are demolition charges, why isn’t everyone in Lower Manhattan that day deaf? > > If they evil conspirators used thermite (nano thermite, ultra thermite, thermate…whatever) how did that work on the vertical columns exactly? How do you get someone who never solo’d in a little airplane to fly an airliner into the exact spot the charges are set? That’s some darn good flying. Terrorist #1: “really looking forward to those 72 virgins”, Terrorist #2, stop talking you’re messing up my floor count. Now I have to start over, one… two… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/83 "2014-02-01T07:00:02Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I believe I’ve linked to the paper from Dr. Steven Jones, who lost his job when he started questioning this 911 BS, before. I’m not going to bother to look for the link again after the response I got. People here didn’t want to consider a peer reviewed paper then, there is no reason for me to think they will now. To the OP all I can say is the information is out there, examine it and decide for yourself. One of the good things about your posting history is that it’s so very short; that is, it’s not a big challenge to search for confirmation about you linking to a paper by Dr. Steven Jones. I have searched for such confirmation. The result of my search leads me to conclude that you did not link to any peer-reviewed paper by Dr. Steven Jones. CAVEAT: You HAVE linked (several times, in fact) to a website titled “Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth”, and it is possible that a sufficiently exhaustive search of that website would eventually turn up a link to the paper you describe. Even if it would, that in no way counts as YOU having linked to the paper. I won’t pretend that the responses you have received to your many posts on the subject of the 9/11 attacks have been supportive, and if you still feel reluctant to find it again and actually link to it, I will not fault you for that. The fact remains, however, that until you do (or somebody else does) the existence of a peer-reviewed paper in support of your position continues to be no more than a bare assertion by you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/84 "2014-02-01T07:28:54Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I still don’t understand. We know. > [@](#): > > You need a civil engineer to build for that specific spot, I agree. But we are talking about physics in the most basic way, the acceleration of an object on earth due to gravity. Is gravity the only force working on debris during a catastrophic building collapse? Who’s more likely to know what forces apply during that scenario? A guy who studies large-scale catastrophic failures for a living, or a guy who studies sub-atomic particles for a living? When you have one guy who studies sub-atomic particles for a living saying one thing about a building collapse, and _literally the entire field of professional civil engineers_ saying the other, why would you believe the one guy who’s talking about thing outside of his field, and not the, again, _literally thousands_ of people who are talking specifically about their field? > [@](#): > > We know that value, we know the volume of the space between the floors, and we know the height of the buildings. We also know the speed of the collapse, the speed of the squibs, and the speed of the debris, all calculated from the video footage. Yes, and everyone with relevant experience who has looked at those numbers has said that the spurts of ejected debris were caused by air pressure from the collapsing floors, and not from explosive squibs. Why don’t you believe all those guys, and instead only trust the guy who’s paper was so embarassingly incorrect and poorly considered that it ended up costing him his job? > [@](#): > > Are you trying to tell me that only a civil engineer can analyze that data? Can you explain why all the civil engineers who have analyzed that data have come to the opposite conclusion from your Dr. Jones? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/85 "2014-02-01T07:35:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > “Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth” The group which resorted to using footage of an actual implosion with the audio stripped in order to get a favorable side-by-side comparison with footage of the fall of 7. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/86 "2014-02-01T16:52:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How do you get someone who never solo’d in a little airplane to fly an airliner into the exact spot the charges are set? That’s some darn good flying. > > Terrorist #1: “really looking forward to those 72 virgins”, Terrorist #2, stop talking you’re messing up my floor count. Now I have to start over, one… two… Not to mention the internal damage required to plant said explosives. “Huh, someone has come into my office while I was out and stripped away almost all of the plasterboard for my office. The wiring has been yanked to get to that column-thing. And now there is a wood box covering some copper bands around a brick of something, and yellow cord running from it out of my office. Wonder if I can hang my coat on it?” ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/87 "2014-02-01T17:09:00Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Not to mention the internal damage required to plant said explosives. > > “Huh, someone has come into my office while I was out and stripped away almost all of the plasterboard for my office. The wiring has been yanked to get to that column-thing. And now there is a wood box covering some copper bands around a brick of something, and yellow cord running from it out of my office. Wonder if I can hang my coat on it?” Dude. You’re simply underestimating the depth of this conspiracy! The charges were placed during construction. Wheels within wheels… ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/88 "2014-02-01T17:37:17Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Don’t bother, **Bryan**. It’s Crazytown that way. > > To everybody who thinks it was a conspiracy: You are right. Thank you for your time. Now go away. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > Dude. You’re simply underestimating the depth of this conspiracy! The charges were placed during construction. Wheels within wheels… Actually the Jewish Reptile aliens used contrail mind control drugs to get the planes to fly into the towers to prevent the Illuminati and Freemasons from detonating the Dilithium thermite charges that they planted in every building constructed after 476 C.E. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/89 "2014-02-01T17:42:03Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Dude. You’re simply underestimating the depth of this conspiracy! The charges were placed during construction. Wheels within wheels… Not to give any credence to this degree of nutballism, but I read a novel years ago where the protagonist was setting up a long-term extortion plot. He did indeed salt a building under construction with explosives, and did so by disguising them as “structural monitoring modules - do not touch.” The compartmentation of construction, and the union rules involved, meant that no one paid the slightest attention, or touched them, until they were sprayed into anonymity with fire-retardant and sealed up in the walls. Damn, those Illuminati are clever. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/90 "2014-02-01T17:50:09Z")
It’s been 12+ years, and in all this time I’ve never understood what the incentive is to believe that 9/11 was an inside job. The US government killed thousands of people, destroyed the health of thousands more, wrecked the economy of New York City and severely damaged the economy of the United States, and for what? Also, if it were an inside job, there would be thousands of people who knew the details. The conspiracy spread over several states and involved several buildings. Yet not a single piece of paper has ever been found detailing the conspiracy, and the only people to come forward to say it was an inside job are people on the outside, wanting it to be one. Last, Osama Bin Laden claimed credit. There IS documented evidence that his organization had [tried something of this magnitude before](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojinka_plot), so why is it so impossible to believe that he tried again and succeeded? You don’t even need to argue scientific findings to debunk the conspiracy theory. Why so many people are so invested in trying to convince someone of something so patently absurd is incomprehensible to me. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/91 "2014-02-01T18:00:50Z")
**Doors** , all conspiracy theories are to give the believers a sense of superiority and a simple, obvious handle on complex, murky, sometimes inexplicable acts. They don’t want to believe they could have been standing atop WTC when a small group of fanatics attacked it for convoluted political reasons; they want to believe it took a massive conspiracy of those they hate, so complicated that it couldn’t happen to them. They don’t want to believe in a lone gunman, or two disturbed and fanatic young brothers, or a captain being urged to set a speed record… because those things could happen to them. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/92 "2014-02-01T18:11:18Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not to give any credence to this degree of nutballism, but I read a novel years ago where the protagonist was setting up a long-term extortion plot. He did indeed salt a building under construction with explosives, and did so by disguising them as “structural monitoring modules - do not touch.” The compartmentation of construction, and the union rules involved, meant that no one paid the slightest attention, or touched them, until they were sprayed into anonymity with fire-retardant and sealed up in the walls. > > Damn, those Illuminati are clever. 😃 You did realize I was kidding, right? The reference to the “degree of nutballism” makes it a little unclear. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/93 "2014-02-01T18:14:34Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Dude. You’re simply underestimating the depth of this conspiracy! The charges were placed during construction. Wheels within wheels… Ah, so we go from "Hush-a-Boom brand explosives to ‘Ne’er Expire’ brand demolition explosives! Genius! Then there was the twoofer argument that the charges were planted during the fire. You had people very seriously proposing that it could be done with ‘half a dozen guys with backpacks!’. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/94 "2014-02-01T18:19:39Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > You did realize I was kidding, right? The reference to the “degree of nutballism” makes it a little unclear. I write seem don’t clearly able be to-today. The conspiracy theories are nuts. No explosives were built into the WTC towers. I was just throwing in an amusing sidelight and probably shouldn’t have bothered. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/95 "2014-02-01T18:44:12Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Ah, so we go from "Hush-a-Boom brand explosives to ‘Ne’er Expire’ brand demolition explosives! Genius! It’s made by ACME! Of course it lasts forever. Just don’t use it if you’re a coyote. > [@](#): > > You had people very seriously proposing that it could be done with ‘half a dozen guys with backpacks!’. Duh. nano-thermite. It’s small! ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/96 "2014-02-01T19:15:42Z")
It isn’t that hard. You think the entire rest of the world that is smart enough to do this is just being hoodwinked? I assume most of the people that believe this think it is one of those false flag things. Do they happen - yes. What is the rational reason here? We have OBL admitting to it on video? Is he in on it? He hated the Saudis - not the Iraqis. Why was he in on it?\>\> It isn’t that hard to train people what to talk about or not. Covering up a conspiracy is plausible. That part of the argument as ammunition could be proven false. I look at how I’m sworn to patient privacy, it’s pretty hammered in there, if you talk, you’re out, and out for good. No one wants to be blacklisted. People inherently know which subjects they can leak on and ones they can’t. I’ve seen subjects that my colleagues know not to even say one word - don’t even blink if you hear it. Combine that with some good ole mind control and hypnotic suggestions, eh? eh? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![arielburns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@arielburns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arielburns)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/97 "2014-02-01T19:28:36Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Not to give any credence to this degree of nutballism, but I read a novel years ago where the protagonist was setting up a long-term extortion plot. He did indeed salt a building under construction with explosives, and did so by disguising them as “structural monitoring modules - do not touch.” The compartmentation of construction, and the union rules involved, meant that no one paid the slightest attention, or touched them, until they were sprayed into anonymity with fire-retardant and sealed up in the walls. > > Damn, those Illuminati are clever. 😃 I actually think it’s a conspiracy within a conspiracy. The real conspiracy is actually that certain power organizations used nine eleven conspiracy to create a distraction. It’s like a sacrifice, if the evil is being ferreted out over here, no need to wonder whether or not taking out that third mortgage is a good idea - we’re taking care of those slippery bad guys. Okay I’m not serious. But the juxtaposition of these two creates a powerful snapshot of our insanity here in the US. I just don’t understand. Why can’t the conspirators find the real shifty events that are happening. Okay I’m sorry, off topic. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/98 "2014-02-01T21:57:39Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Dude. You’re simply underestimating the depth of this conspiracy! The charges were placed during construction. Wheels within wheels… > [@dogbutler](#): > > Actually the Jewish Reptile aliens used contrail mind control drugs to get the planes to fly into the towers to prevent the Illuminati and Freemasons from detonating the Dilithium thermite charges that they planted in every building constructed after 476 C.E. Is it possible that JFK had a miniature dilithium thermite charge planted in his skull at some prior point to Dallas? Maybe during a Navy physical while in the service, or even when he was born? Just asking the question. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/99 "2014-02-01T22:15:07Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Dude. You’re simply underestimating the depth of this conspiracy! The charges were placed during construction. Wheels within wheels… Ah, yes. The explosive-coated rebar 9/11 theory. The reason all the floor spabs were destroyed is the rebar was coated with C-4 before the concrete was poured, ensuring the concrete would be obliterated. And no, I’m not making that CT up. It’s floating out there. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/100 "2014-02-01T23:46:22Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Ah, yes. The explosive-coated rebar 9/11 theory. The reason all the floor spabs were destroyed is the rebar was coated with C-4 before the concrete was poured, ensuring the concrete would be obliterated. > > And no, I’m not making that CT up. It’s floating out there. Ya know, somehow, deep down, I knew that I couldn’t come up with something crazy enough that it hadn’t already been floated. Damn. :mad: dasmoocher, it’s been nice knowing you. I figure you’re already scheduled for “collection”. Sorry man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226.md?page=6)