# WTC Collapse: Need airtight answer please! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226 "2014-01-31T19:14:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/121 "2014-02-03T19:21:47Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Not really, no. OMG! It goes even deeper then. They were uniquely targeted starting with the design phase! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/122 "2014-02-03T19:33:45Z")
> [@John\_Morrow](#): > > Help me demolish my brother-in-law and his hangers-on… When looking at video playbacks of the 911 collapse of the WTC towers, we can see small, seemingly synchronized, timed explosive puffs from the corners of several floors as the tower pancakes. These “puffs” are like those one sees in videos of planned explosive demolitions of big buildings. ROFL The only alternative explanation you will encounter is the release of pressure built up inside caused by the falling top portion of the building. Of course this “PRESSURE” would build up throughout the lower portion of the building going down stairwells and elevator shafts presumably. So how could it ever become great enough to cause those ejections? That “EXPLANATION” is ridiculous. It is so curious that in 1940 a 1:200th scale model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge could be built in a wind tunnel which duplicated the oscillating behavior of the real bridge but in 12 years we don’t have a physical model of the collapse. What engineering school has even discussed building one? :smack: psik ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/123 "2014-02-03T19:53:49Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#): > > ROFL > > The only alternative explanation you will encounter is the release of pressure built up inside caused by the falling top portion of the building. > > Of course this “PRESSURE” would build up throughout the lower portion of the building going down stairwells and elevator shafts presumably. So how could it ever become great enough to cause those ejections? That “EXPLANATION” is ridiculous. > > It is so curious that in 1940 a 1:200th scale model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge could be built in a wind tunnel which duplicated the oscillating behavior of the real bridge but in 12 years we don’t have a physical model of the collapse. What engineering school has even discussed building one? :smack: > > psik Mods, if he is just going to say the same things over and over again, things that have already been repeatedly rebutted, can we just link to a previous thread or two and close this one? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/124 "2014-02-03T20:07:26Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#): > > Of course this “PRESSURE” would build up throughout the lower portion of the building going down stairwells and elevator shafts presumably. So how could it ever become great enough to cause those ejections? Take the cap off of a full tube of toothpaste. Smash the tube near the center with a brick. Tell me if all of the toothpaste that escaped came out of the little hole. > [@](#): > > It is so curious that in 1940 a 1:200th scale model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge could be built in a wind tunnel which duplicated the oscillating behavior of the real bridge but in 12 years we don’t have a physical model of the collapse. What engineering school has even discussed building one? :smack: Why hasn’t an engineering school discussed building a scaled down model? You already know the answer as you’ve been schooled on it in multiple message boards. It’s because of the square cube law. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/125 "2014-02-03T20:08:23Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Only tangentially related to the thread, but a Truther interrupted the Super Bowl MVP’s post-game news conference last night. There’s a very active thread on this in the Politics section of the IMDb Board. Somebody copied post 104 over there. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/126 "2014-02-03T20:13:25Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Sorry, I should have given a barf bag alert. It made you barf? It made me cry. ☹ Obviously, we are both deluded. On another note, IMDB is the [Internet Movie Database.](http://www.imdb.com/) SDMB is the Straight Dope Message Board. BIG difference. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/127 "2014-02-03T20:21:14Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > . . . Why hasn’t an engineering school discussed building a scaled down model? You already know the answer as you’ve been schooled on it in multiple message boards. It’s because of the square cube law. Three possible reasons come to mind: 1. Engineering schools mostly concentrate on putting things up, seismic safety being the major exception; 2. It would be big enough to be a significant expense for a demonstration that would have little or no benefit; and 3. It would be really creepy. As a subset of #3, if modeling of portions of the collapse has been done, the results are buried in engineering journals and have gone unnoticed by net denizens. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/128 "2014-02-03T20:31:04Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > On another note, IMDB is the [Internet Movie Database.](http://www.imdb.com/) SDMB is the Straight Dope Message Board. BIG difference. We get a better class of CTist; those who stick around, that is. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![psikeyhackr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/129 "2014-02-03T20:58:08Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Why hasn’t an engineering school discussed building a scaled down model? You already know the answer as you’ve been schooled on it in multiple message boards. It’s because of the square cube law. I guess the square cube law didn’t work in 1940 on the Tacoma Narrows Bridge model. At 2:45 That model was 54 feet long. A 1:100th scale model of the north tower would only be 13’ 9" and would not have to be built in a wind tunnel. And they could use 3D printers. The support material would have to be weaker relative to the weight to compensate for the square cube law but we would still have to have accurate data on the mass distribution. psik ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/130 "2014-02-03T21:09:05Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#): > > A 1:100th scale model of the north tower would only be 13’ 9" and would not have to be built in a wind tunnel. And they could use 3D printers. The support material would have to be weaker relative to the weight to compensate for the square cube law but we would still have to have accurate data on the mass distribution. If you think it can be accomplished that way, why have you written the following on your blog?: > [@](#): > > Grade school kids could build that and test it to their hearts content. Computers must be told how to compute physics and it must be coded perfectly or else they can get it wrong. Real models cannot escape real physics. The problem with small models is being too strong in relation to their own weight because of the square cube law. Engineering schools that charge $100,000 for four years of education should be able to afford to test larger models. Where is the engineering school that has built a physical model that can completely collapse? Maybe they don’t find 9/11 interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/131 "2014-02-03T21:12:55Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#): > > in 12 years we don’t have a physical model of the collapse. What engineering school has even discussed building one? :smack: And why, exactly, would they build one? Allow me to 'splain… The Tacoma Narrows Bridge fell down because of a stiff breeze. Engineers NEED to understand why stiff breezes knock down bridges. It’s IMPORTANT, because they plan on building more bridges, and would like them to not fall down when the wind blows. Building a model helps them learn how the wind affects bridges. The World Trade Center buildings fell down because they were hit by jets. We already know why they fell down, it’s not a mystery, and engineers don’t need to know why a firey jet crash made the building fall down. Even if you buy into the Conspiracy Theory 100%, then you’ll say the WTC was taken down by explosives, that’s not a mystery either. There is no engineering to be learned by building a model. YOU want a model to be built to prove your theory correct. Of course, if the Engineering Department at MIT builds a model that shows a collapse 100% consistent with a jet crash, I fully expect to hear that the model was ‘tweaked’ to match the government’s narrative. Conspiracy Theorists do not accept data that fails to fit their model. They live on uncertainty, and any data, from practically any source, can be questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/132 "2014-02-03T21:15:10Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#): > > It is so curious that in 1940 a 1:200th scale model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge could be built in a wind tunnel which duplicated the oscillating behavior of the real bridge but in 12 years we don’t have a physical model of the collapse. What engineering school has even discussed building one? :smack: Plenty of engineering schools have made models of the WTC collapse. They don’t make _physical_ models, because we have computers now, which make much more accurate models at less cost, and with less effort. > [@](#): > > I guess the square cube law didn’t work in 1940 on the Tacoma Narrows Bridge model. What relevance does the square cube law have to the collapse of the Tacoma Narrows? ---
**Author:** ![opmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9d8465/32.png) [@opmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/opmike)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/133 "2014-02-03T21:46:32Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > OMG! It goes even deeper then. They were uniquely targeted starting with the design phase! :eek: I actually recall hearing something like this before online on one of the major CT websites. That the WTC was originally designed in such a fashion to make it susceptible to collapse for when the government found use for it. I think it was part of a larger exercise of moving the goalposts after repeated challenges of how aircraft damage and burning fuel COULD account for the collapse for building of that design. The glaring issue here, of course, is the goalposts have moved so far back that the controlled demolition isn’t even required anymore…which was the original argument. :dubious: Again, arguing with true believers is a USELESS exercise beyond simply exercising one’s own fingers. They are immune to facts and reason. Anything that doesn’t fit the narrative is immediately disregarded or incorporated into the conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/134 "2014-02-03T21:49:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What relevance does the square cube law have to the collapse of the Tacoma Narrows? In the video he linked to, a scaled down model of a bridge was made and it was able to sway. This proves…Hell, I don’t know what it proves. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/135 "2014-02-03T21:59:25Z")
> [@opmike](#): > > Again, arguing with true believers is a USELESS exercise beyond simply exercising one’s own fingers. They are immune to facts and reason. Anything that doesn’t fit the narrative is immediately disregarded or incorporated into the conspiracy. And the latter is done via cherry picking out of context then spun to the point of being meaningless to everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/136 "2014-02-03T22:09:15Z")
Wow, there are still people who believe that 9/11 was an inside job? Their lives must be incredibly dull. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/137 "2014-02-03T22:11:42Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > You know, I have an idea that just might work… > > Are there other buildings left in the world that were built the same way as the WTC towers? > > The conspiracy theorists and the debunkers could get together and conduct a controlled experiment. They would hijack an airliner, install some kind of remote control system in midflight and land the plane and quietly remove all the passengers (per the conspiracy). > > They would then send it crashing into whatever building is a stand-in for the WTC. Dozens of high speed cameras would be set up everywhere. > > If the building collapses like the WTC towers did, we’ve debunked the conspiracy! Here’s a video of the University of Delft’s Technology school. It collapsed after a fire on its 7th floor. The collapse is the 1:00 mark. Reference: > **[ItemFix - Social Video Factory](https://www.itemfix.com/?r=ll)** > > Social Video Factory ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/138 "2014-02-03T22:18:54Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#): > > It is so curious that in 1940 a 1:200th scale model of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge could be built in a wind tunnel which duplicated the oscillating behavior of the real bridge but in 12 years we don’t have a physical model of the collapse. What engineering school has even discussed building one? :smack: > > psik So, what’s the allegation here? The government gives money to engineering schools, on the condition that they don’t make physical models to study 9/11? They threaten the faculty of every engineering school? All engineering school instructors are government agents? What? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/139 "2014-02-03T22:22:00Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Just because one CTer agrees with another does not make it “peer reviewed”. Unless, of course, the agreement happened during a discussion at the urinals… ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226/140 "2014-02-03T22:24:52Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Here’s a video of the University of Delft’s Technology school. > It collapsed after a fire on its 7th floor. > The collapse is the 1:00 mark. > > Reference: > > [ItemFix - Social Video Factory](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ff1_1210707903) Well, from the description: > [@](#): > > "In the morning of may 13th, 2008 a fire started on the seventh floor of the faculty of _architecture_. The _architects_ are in on it. Excuse me while I put on my tinfoil hard hat and check my crawl space with a flashlight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-collapse-need-airtight-answer-please/680226.md?page=8)