I with BobLibDem-this was a murder, not a suicide. It’s like being asked"where do you want it,in the belly or the head?" The method of death may have been of their choosing, but the decision of whether to die or not die was never theirs to make.
Um…“I agree with BobLibDem.” Me Tarzan for a minute.
How many WTC victims’ families had their life insurance claims refused on the grounds of death through suicide?
Never mind entrance requirements for hell, they are nowhere near as thorough as insurance companies. So your cow-irker is seriously misguided (among other things.)
Interesting question. Does anyone know if any of the WTC death certificates actually listed suicide as cause of death? I would certainly be surprised if there were, since I believe them to be homicide victims, not suicides.
There seems to be an unspoken assumption here that the jumper was a faithful Catholic or Christian. One must not forget the school of thought that says if they had not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior by the time they died, they are in Hell regardless of their intent in jumping.
Regarding life insurance and suicide: Most life insurance companies have a suicide clause which states that they will NOT pay if you commit suicide within two years of getting your policy. After two years they are obligated to the terms of the policy.
Didn’t some of those poor souls attempt to fashion makeshift parachutes?
As doverpro pointed out, it would depend on how long the policy was in effect. Even if it was under two years, you would still have your premiums refunded.
In any event, I don’t think any of the jumpers were ever identified as such. So, it would be tough to prove that the person jumped rather than fell down with the building.
Is there some reason this doesn’t apply to all humans, not just males?
Nope. The priest is nice to have for comfort, but it’s not a requirement. A heartfelt Act of Contrition has always been a slate cleaner, forgiving all sin. (at least for Catholics) If you don’t have time to recite that, it’s generally accepted that simply honestly saying as little as “sorry” will do the same thing.
Jumping out of the fire…into hell fire?
I think not so.
Jumping out of the umpteenth floor to excape a raging jet fuel/bldg. contents fire would result in an intense adrenalin rush as you sped downward at increasing speed until you lost consciousnes from lack of breath or suddent impact with terra firma.
Conversely, there’s the school of thought that says none of the jumpers are in Hell, because it doesn’t exist.
Most of the folks who jumped from the WTC could not be distinguished from those who were caught in the collapse of the buildings. However, a few of those who jumped apparently landed on the rooftops of nearby buildings, and hence could be easily identified as jumpers. The NYPD did not identify them as “suicide” victims, but rather “homicide” victims. It is beyond dispute that, after a certain very narrow window, everyone above certain floors in the buildings were doomed; they either would have been killed by the fire or the collapse, and never had any hope of escape.
You might point this out to your coworker befure you tell him what a fucking asshole he is.
What a horrible, sickly disgusting thing for someone to say. I hope your co-worker is never in the desperate position of having to choose between being broiled alive or hitting the ground at 200 mph instead. He’ll think back to what he said and realize what a misguided fool he was.
I guess that’s not a General Answer. Well tough.
Hmmm… That’s not the way the nuns at my Catholic school explained it to me. Then again, they were the type who imagined God sitting on His cloud rubbing his hands together in gleeful anticipation of getting to throw more sinners into Hell. Kinda like tha aforementioned co-irker.
Hell schmell. Can’t be worse than Memphis, TN.
I honestly don’t know, bonham. All the stories I’ve ever seen of a person getting the airplane in which he or she was conveyed shot out from under him and surviving the fall involved male “jumpers”.
Unfortunately, none of the makeshift parachutes worked.
That’s because a lot of those stories date from WWII, where the vast overwhelming majority of people in airplanes were men.
There is at least one well-known story of a female airline attendant surving a multi-thousand foot fall. Absolutely no reason the odds are any better or worse for either gender
There’s a website out there with lots of such stories, but I can’t recall the name right now.
The (catholic) priest told us the same thing when I was a kid (replacing “probably” by “possibly”, though).
Yeah but you guys are missing an important point…
The victims were given the option of Possibly surviving a small fire, or committing suicide by plummeting to their deaths. The paradox of your argument is that:
A> The fire would have consumed the whole building
B> Helicopters wouldn’t be used to do a hanoi evac from the rooftop
3> The buildings would collapse
The people who killed themselves had no idea the buildings would collapse. The NYFD barely had the half-assed thought of it occuring. And like 1991, the people had no reason to believe the whole building would be consumed by fire. It also wouldn’t be unreasonable to have a rooftop heliport taking people away. You’re using ex-post-facto information to justify a pre-action. :rolleyes: