# WTC Scientologist scam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2001, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923 "2001-10-02T05:35:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/61 "2001-11-26T05:35:37Z")
**waterj2** , let me assure you that the organisation in question loves nothing more than debates beiing deflected into the realm of “so you care more about the poor/rich/white/black/gay/straight/male/female people than you do about X specific issue”. Information on the Sea org is readily available on sites previously linked to in this thread. I was part of AOSH ANZO. ---
**Author:** ![tisiphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tisiphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tisiphone)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/62 "2001-11-26T22:16:23Z")
I’ve been following this story since the $cientologists got [penet.fi](http://penet.fi) shut down. They’re pretty damn scary. This stuff looks ridiculous because it is. It is a ‘religion’ put together by a misogynistic pulp sci-fi writer, and looks like it to the objective observer. However, the reason they still manage to recruit members, is that you aren’t allowed to see the more silly stuff until you’ve been artfully conditioned to accept it. The Great Scientology vs. the Internet war really took off when somebody on the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup published a portion of the advanced materials for public mockery. Scientologists are led to beleive that if they read the advanced materials before reaching a sufficiently high level in the organization, they will die or go mad. The reality is, if you are not sufficiently brainwashed, you will immediately see how laughable the whole thing is. ---
**Author:** ![mighty\_maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@mighty\_maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mighty_maxx)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/63 "2001-11-26T23:01:49Z")
I liked Hubbard’s books. They were great sci-fi books, fun to read. The Book “Battlefield Earth” was pure joy. I never paid much attention to the darker side of Hubbard. To me, Hubbard the Sci-Fi writer and hubbard the insane religous crack-pot are two different people. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/64 "2001-11-27T01:54:52Z")
No, my point is, I thought religion is supposed to be something that is about faith-not how much money you have in the bank. After all, it isn’t as if Scientology is the ONLY religion to do these shitty things-various cults and sects do it all the time. It’s just the blatant aim-about how you have to PAY to be saved should tip someone right off-because it’s so fucking obvious. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/65 "2001-11-27T02:30:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mighty\_maxx \* > **The Book “Battlefield Earth” was pure joy.** If you can ignore ham-fisted symbolism. I mean, “Psychlos”? And the hero’s name is “Jonnie Goodboy”? About as subtle as calling him “Everyman Whitehat McHeroperson”… ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/66 "2001-11-27T02:43:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeu\_D’esprit \* > \*\*(standing on soapbox) > > Hey, if Scientology is so evil … why hasn’t Jack Chick done a tract on them? > > Did’ya ever think of that? Hmmm? Can’t be all that bad then, right? > > (sound of feet running away) \*\* It makes sense! Jack Chick is really a Scientologist trying to make Christians look bad!! ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/67 "2001-11-27T03:14:48Z")
rofl @ **jab1** BTW we seem to have a lot of representation from about every religious group possible here, from Subway’s Church of Jared™ to about 90 kinds of wiccans. Is it possible that there are no scientologists here to defend their faith? ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/68 "2001-11-27T03:30:38Z")
Hubbard himself wrote that Scientologists are not to answer criticism or defend themselves in a debate; they should instead go on the offensive and ruin the attacker through whatever means. So you’ll never see them showing up in an online debate, but the might sue to have the forum shut down, flood it with spam, throw lawsuits around, or just harass you until you give up and go away. Lovely religion. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/69 "2001-11-27T03:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AndrewL \* > **Hubbard himself wrote that Scientologists are not to answer criticism or defend themselves in a debate; they should instead go on the offensive and ruin the attacker through whatever means. So you’ll never see them showing up in an online debate, but the might sue to have the forum shut down, flood it with spam, throw lawsuits around, or just harass you until you give up and go away.** Or they just might resort to using poetry bots to render the forum useless… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/70 "2001-11-27T03:59:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\*rofl @ **jab1** > > BTW we seem to have a lot of representation from about every religious group possible here, from Subway’s Church of Jared™ to about 90 kinds of wiccans. Is it possible that there are no scientologists here to defend their faith? \*\* Look at the bottom of the thread I posted a link to, and read the inane, vapid, stupid comments of a clam named **Scientologist**. Then think: How long would someone like him last here, if he was very active at all in Great Debates or the Pit? He’d be the laughingstock of the SDMB! He’d be more fun than Tug-Ahoy jokes at a JDT bashing! This place is too intellectually rigorous for droids. We’d have them running in circles within an hour. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/71 "2001-11-27T04:26:17Z")
[sup]Apologies for Hijack[/sup] Great! I lived with a longtime Scientologist for a few years, and consequently had the opportunity to peruse just about everything published (up to “OT II”) without spending a dime. I read all 10 books in the _Mission Earth_ series. Best stuff LRH ever wrote, reminded me a little bit of Stanislaw Lem. In _Battlefield Earth_, it seemed like Hubbard was asking the reader to take the story seriously, which I couldn’t _quite_. I might actually go see a _Mission Earth_ movie, or at least check it out on video. Should be funny! Any sci-fi folk that have a passing interest in the cult of Scientology should check out Robert A. Heinlein’s [_Number of the Beast_](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0449130703/qid=1006834843/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/002-0358149-0322467), in which Heinlein takes the piss out of LRH by portraying him as the Anti-Christ. Too funny. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/72 "2001-11-27T04:37:51Z")
**Larry** Heinlen’s portrayal isn’t “taking the piss” as much as you might think. The upper OT™ levels can be found online - you might be surprised at just how accurately Heinlen’s story portrayed Hubbard’s own belief and teachings. I’m pretty sure it’s OTVIII™, you need to check out to see how frighteningly spot-on Heinlen was. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/73 "2001-11-27T05:02:23Z")
**reprise** , I don’t think Heinlein intended anything other than to poke fun at Hubbard. They had a long-standing friendship, going back to the days when the “Big Three” in pulp science-fiction were acknowledged to be Heinlein, Bradbury, and Hubbard. (Why, I have no idea-- Hubbard was a hack.) Here’s Hubbard’s reaction to the publication of _Number of the Beast_ in a [letter to Heinlein](http://literary.lronhubbard.org/page83.htm): > [@](#): > > Congratulations on your new book, _The Number of the Beast_ published by Fawcett Columbine. I read it with considerable pleasure. The old master has lost none of his touch. Indeed, he has added to it! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/74 "2001-11-29T10:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Torque \* > If you can ignore ham-fisted symbolism. I mean, “Psychlos”? And the hero’s name is “Jonnie Goodboy”? About as subtle as calling him “Everyman Whitehat McHeroperson”… \*\* [hijack] My personal favorite along these lines is Neal Stephenson’s “Hiro Protagonist” from _Snow Crash_. Very tongue-in-cheek. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/75 "2001-11-29T11:31:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jr8 \* > \*\* > My personal favorite along these lines is Neal Stephenson’s “Hiro Protagonist” from _Snow Crash_. Very tongue-in-cheek. > [/hijack] \*\* Ha! That was exactly what I was thinking when I read that, too. Of course the fact that I just re-read _Snow Crash_ last week probably helps explain that. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/76 "2001-11-29T12:28:12Z")
I got the impression that a lot of these high-profile celebrities are _stuck_ in the Co$, because it has too much dirt on them to let them get out. After years of scammy “analysis” sessions, when all the darkest deepest secrets of theie souls have been collected by some evil cash-stuffing minister (or whatever they call themselves) it would be a terrifying prospect to leave, if and when you saw the light. Eg Celebrity X might not want to be outed as gay, if he had a predominantly female fanbase, and lose the chance of being a romantic lead in lucrative blockbuster flicks. Celebrity Y might not want her loyal fans finding out she’d given up 2 kids for adoption and had four abortions on the path to fame. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2001, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/77 "2001-11-29T12:46:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Torque \* > I mean, “Psychlos”? And the hero’s name is “Jonnie Goodboy”? About as subtle as calling him “Everyman Whitehat McHeroperson”… 😃 ROFL. Holy shit. Oh. right. Scientologists bite in uncomfortable places. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/78 "2002-03-22T16:45:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*My apologies, **Philo** , my “not joking” reference was indeed to the fact that “Mission Earth” is being produced. \*\* You mean someone is actually dumb enough to make a sequel to that wretched excuse for a movie??!? ---
**Author:** ![Du\_Hast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f0a364/32.png) [@Du\_Hast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Du_Hast)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923/79 "2002-03-22T20:50:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\* > > We all know that you were just hanging out for the sequel **Mission Earth** (no, I’m not joking) so you could do the “doub-le fea-ture, sci-ence fic-tion” thing. 😛 > > [sub]no Rocky Horror Show characters were harmed in the composition of this post[/sub] \*\* Excuse me? A sequel to BATTLEFIELD EARTH? Please tell me this is a joke, otherwise, I am going to go join Osama bin Laden in his cave in Whereverastan. And yes, $cientology = teh ghey. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc-scientologist-scam/84923.md?page=3)