# WTC7 collapse, new numerical results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064 "2019-09-11T19:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![namahoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/77aa72/32.png) [@namahoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/namahoo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/1 "2019-09-11T19:35:33Z")
Hello all, The long-awaited study from the University of Alaska/Fairbanks was out a few days back, with appropriate media coverage. But if you missed it, here’s a heads up. They seem to rule out NIST’s proposed collapse mechanism and their simulation of simultaneous failure of all columns is uncannily like the real-life collapse. What do you make of it? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/2 "2019-09-11T19:38:42Z")
No, what do you make of it? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/3 "2019-09-11T19:44:15Z")
Link? ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/4 "2019-09-11T19:47:59Z")
The last sentences from the [draft report](http://ine.uaf.edu/media/222439/uaf_wtc7_draft_report_09-03-2019.pdf): > [@](#): > > It is our conclusion that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near simultaneous failure of all columns in the building and not a progressive collapse involving the sequential failure of columns throughout the building. > Despite simulating a number of hypothetical scenarios, we were unable to identify any progressive sequence of failures that could have taken place on September 11, 2001, and caused a total collapse of the building, let alone the observed straight-down collapse with approximately 2.5 seconds of free fall and minimal differential movement of the exterior. This is more of a “what happened” conclusion not a “why it happened” conclusion. There does not appear to be a discussion of why there was a global failure. Me? I am going with aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/5 "2019-09-11T19:51:48Z")
Dr Hulsey has been doing work for Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, who appear to have commissioned this study, for several years. While he claims to be a forensic structural engineer, it appears he has no specific training in that area. He is a well trained and respected civil engineer otherwise. I don’t have the engineering chops to review the paper, I’ll let others do that. But at first glance I am suspect of a report commissioned by quacks that happens to support their primary thesis. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/6 "2019-09-11T19:52:44Z")
> [@](#): > > **Prepared for: > Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth** Those nutcases commissioned this paper? ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/7 "2019-09-11T19:53:49Z")
> [@namahoo](#): > > The long-awaited study from the University of Alaska/Fairbanks was out a few days back, with **appropriate media coverage.** (Bolding mine.) Which is to say, coverage from the university itself, a few scattered sources in Alaska, and sites with monikers involving “9/11truth” and such. Places like Reuters and CNN haven’t jumped on the study. I’m guessing that’s “appropriate.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/8 "2019-09-11T19:58:02Z")
> [@namahoo](#): > > Hello all, > > The long-awaited study from the University of Alaska/Fairbanks was out a few days back, with appropriate media coverage. But if you missed it, here’s a heads up. > > They seem to rule out NIST’s proposed collapse mechanism and their simulation of simultaneous failure of all columns is uncannily like the real-life collapse. > > What do you make of it? What brought this to your attention, and what do you think about it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/9 "2019-09-11T19:59:50Z")
All I can find is from [2017](https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-uaf-study-shows-wtc7-could-not-have-collapsed-from-fire.t9056/). I can’t tell if this is newer than that. The first thing that occurs to me is that if it was controlled demolition, why was it only in WTC7, and did the airliners crashing into the other towers cause those to collapse but not WTC7? No idea how reputable [Dr. Leroy Hulsey](http://ine.uaf.edu/projects/wtc7/) is among his peers. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/10 "2019-09-11T20:10:36Z")
Just to provide a link: [Breaking: UAF study says government wrong on World Trade Center collapse](https://mustreadalaska.com/breaking-uaf-study-says-government-wrong-world-trade-center-collapse/). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/11 "2019-09-11T20:20:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just to provide a link: [Breaking: UAF study says government wrong on World Trade Center collapse](https://mustreadalaska.com/breaking-uaf-study-says-government-wrong-world-trade-center-collapse/). Subtitled “ **ALASKA-LED TEAM VINDICATES 911 ‘TRUTHERS’** ” Inspires confidence in the report, don’t it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/12 "2019-09-11T20:27:43Z")
Let’s sidestep the physics and math for a moment. One issue 9/11 Truthers have never answered is why the U.S. government (or whoever was nefarious enough to rig this thing) would \*\*\*want \*\*\*to knock down WTC7. What does knocking down the relatively-obscure, little-known building called WTC7 get them that knocking down the two big Twin Towers alone didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/13 "2019-09-11T20:41:48Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > The last sentences from the [draft report](http://ine.uaf.edu/media/222439/uaf_wtc7_draft_report_09-03-2019.pdf): > > > [@](#): > > > > It is our conclusion that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near simultaneous failure of all columns in the building and not a progressive collapse involving the sequential failure of columns throughout the building. > > Despite simulating a number of hypothetical scenarios, we were unable to identify any progressive sequence of failures that could have taken place on September 11, 2001, and caused a total collapse of the building, let alone the observed straight-down collapse with approximately 2.5 seconds of free fall and minimal differential movement of the exterior. Wow, that summary is just dripping with 9/11 Truther talking points. I would hope that the structural physics world would look into it and then see if it still stands. However, I don’t think any real working experts will actually waste their time with it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/14 "2019-09-11T20:47:51Z")
> [@namahoo](#): > > Hello all, > > The long-awaited study from the University of Alaska/Fairbanks was out a few days back, with appropriate media coverage. But if you missed it, here’s a heads up. > > They seem to rule out NIST’s proposed collapse mechanism and their simulation of simultaneous failure of all columns is uncannily like the real-life collapse. > > What do you make of it? I’ve never understood why this building fascinates the 9/11 Truther CT types, to be honest. There really aren’t any mysteries as to why the building collapsed. Basically, a ton of building material fell on it from the other WTC tower collapses (BURNING debris at that), and due to water main breaks and, kind of other priorities happening the building was left burning all day without fire fighters really doing much (read: anything). I did look up a NIST [FAQ](https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-failure-studies/faqs-nist-wtc-7-investigation) page on WTC 7, for anyone interested. Been a while since I looked into this (since the last crazy 9/11 Truther came here to discuss it), but I recall seeing some of the models and it seems more than plausible that, along with the initial damage to structural supports facing the tower collapse damaged sections, the fire weakened the rest of the supports over hours of uncontrolled burning, leading to a collapse. Certainly there is zero evidence of explosives or anything like that, so seems a red herring to me to talk about simultaneous collapse in some sort of sinister tones. Since the OP didn’t link to this great report, and since it seems, unsurprisingly to have come from 9/11 CTer types I don’t really think it’s worth looking at. If the OP felt there was something compelling in there I figure s/he would have linked to and quoted it. What do I make of it? Last gasp by the 9/11 Truther types to try and get some traction for their crazy theories would be my guess. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/15 "2019-09-11T20:49:10Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Wow, that summary is just dripping with 9/11 Truther talking points. > … > However, I don’t think any real working experts will actually waste their time with it. I suspect the people who “commissioned” this study are counting on the fact that no reputable authority will actually waste their time on debunking more of this bullshit. Also, there is some comments on the linked site that says they will solicit public opinion prior to publishing the full results of the study later this year. Sounds completely legit to me. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/16 "2019-09-11T20:55:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Since the OP didn’t link to this great report, and since it seems, unsurprisingly to have come from 9/11 CTer types I don’t really think it’s worth looking at. If the OP felt there was something compelling in there I figure s/he would have linked to and quoted it. What do I make of it? Last gasp by the 9/11 Truther types to try and get some traction for their crazy theories would be my guess. The linked site says the report is not yet published. They wish to solicit public opinion first. Target date is end of 2019: > [@](#): > > There will be a two-month public comment period from September 3 to November 1, 2019, with the final report to be released later this year. > > “During this period, we welcome any and all members of the public to submit constructive comments intended to further the analyses and presentation of findings contained in the report. IOW: Submit your lunatic fringe conspiracy theories to us and we’ll try to include them in the report. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/17 "2019-09-11T20:56:51Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The linked site says the report is not yet published. They wish to solicit public opinion first. Target date is end of 2019: > > IOW: Submit your lunatic fringe conspiracy theories to us and we’ll try to include them in the report. Well, you know, ALL peer reviewed papers are generally submitted to solicit public opinion first…right? Right?? Isn’t that how it works??? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/18 "2019-09-11T21:07:31Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just to provide a link: [Breaking: UAF study says government wrong on World Trade Center collapse](https://mustreadalaska.com/breaking-uaf-study-says-government-wrong-world-trade-center-collapse/). [mustreadalaska.com](http://mustreadalaska.com) ?? 😕 No. Must NOT read. Just due to the domain name. Life is too short. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/19 "2019-09-11T21:31:33Z")
> [@XT](#): > > {…} What do I make of it? Last gasp by the 9/11 Truther types to try and get some traction for their crazy theories would be my guess. Oh, you crazy dreamer you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/20 "2019-09-11T22:38:32Z")
Here’s some numerical results for you: There used to be 1 building called WTC7. Now there are 0 buildings called WTC7. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=2)