# WTC7 collapse, new numerical results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064 "2019-09-11T19:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/221 "2019-09-18T14:43:17Z")
Yes yes, my cites are dubious but yours are above reproach of course. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/222 "2019-09-18T14:48:43Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > (my personal fave: “pyroclastic flows”. Naturally there was a YouTube video about it.). Leaving out the heat, what’s the primary cause of pyroclastic flows? Collapsing rock. Such as 110-floors of drywall & concrete falling to Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/223 "2019-09-18T14:48:58Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I mean they as in the collective, now a religion that a lot of the country believes as fact and I know your trying to bait me with your personal fave. I’m not “baiting” you. It is literally my favorite of the theories that have been put forward on the matter. There’s also the “the planes were actually missiles projecting holograms” one, but I’m not convinced that guy actually believed that one. But you say you’ve got a science-based argument. Bring it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/224 "2019-09-18T14:52:52Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes yes, my cites are dubious but yours are above reproach of course. Well, no, they’re not. But that’s the point. The data is out there for people to review. And overwhelmingly, the civil engineers who have reviewed the data agree with the government findings while the people who still have their doubts, even the ones with STEM degrees or specialties, are overwhelmingly not civil engineers. Experts, like the ASCE, have signed off on the official findings. These are professionals who do civil engineering for a living. And that’s not exactly a monolithic group but a professional society with independent members. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/225 "2019-09-18T14:55:13Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes yes, my cites are dubious but yours are above reproach of course. In this thread you haven’t given any cites. However, in previous threads all you managed to do was invoke AE911T, to which the term ‘dubious’ would be an extraordinary kindness. Our cites certainly can be criticized. And in some cases they have been (note that NIST was publicly reviewed by the world’s engineering community, a process much harsher than paper peer review.). ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/226 "2019-09-18T15:01:10Z")
I’m a layman, but we can do amazing things now. Like analyze a video and get feet per second of a moving object. I personally don’t know anything, but we know how objects in Earth’s gravity well behave according to physics These are know facts, laws of nature. How do you explain the buildings collapse approaching terminal velocity? ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/227 "2019-09-18T15:01:37Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The WTC buildings were designed like giant square tube-shaped bundle of sticks with each floor being suspended from the outer load-bearing perimeter and the inner core by a series of pins and trusses. The floors also serve to bundle the outer perimeter together to provide strength. One thing that the WTC lacked was a lot of inner load-bearing columns. > > IOW it seems pretty straightforward to me that once a couple of floors broke loose from the outer perimeter due to damage from the impact and fire weakening their supports, it would cause a cascading failure that acted very much like a pile driver. The 95th floor would land on the 94th, detaching it. Both floors would land on the 93rd. The debris from 4 floors landing on the 92nd, so on and so forth, accelerating as it goes. > > Such a collapse would likely not happen in a conventional steel frame building because the columns are designed to take the load of the entire building above it. Thank you for your respectful and thoughtful response. I see what you are saying. I maintain my skepticism because I still believe the lower floors should have slowed the cascading collapse to a greater extent than what we saw. I also believe a floor collapse must have been a scenario factored into the engineering of the buildings. Perhaps someone can cite whether that’s true or not. Beyond that, in order for your scenario to work, there had to be a uniform collapse on all of the lower floors. As I see it, at least one section would hold out slightly longer than the others. Let’s say the NW section of the 94th floor held out slightly longer than the other sections of the floor. In the ensuing collapse to the 93rd floor, the NW section would hold out even longer and downward forces would vary as rubble would assuredly be uneven due the chaotic nature of the situation. The same would happen on the 92nd floor and so forth until the collapse lost its uniformity. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/228 "2019-09-18T15:04:00Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > As I see it, at least one section would hold out slightly longer than the others. The cores did. > [@LAZombie](#): > > Let’s say the NW section of the 94th floor held out slightly longer than the other sections of the floor. In the ensuing collapse to the 93rd floor, the NW section would hold out even longer and downward forces would vary as rubble would assuredly be uneven due the chaotic nature of the situation. The same would happen on the 92nd floor and so forth until the collapse lost its uniformity. Once the roof was gone, so was much of the stability. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/229 "2019-09-18T15:04:29Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes yes, my cites are dubious but yours are above reproach of course. You haven’t given any. In fact, you haven’t given anything at all. You haven’t said how science disproves ‘The Official Story(tm…arr)’, or anything else. You made some vague claims and that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/230 "2019-09-18T15:06:51Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Thank you for your respectful and thoughtful response. > > I see what you are saying. I maintain my skepticism because I still believe the lower floors should have slowed the cascading collapse to a greater extent than what we saw. Why? No really, why? Please show the math involved that would indicate a required slowdown. Or reference someone who has. Your faith in this slowdown is essentially being surprised that a bicycle on the railroad tracks did not stop or even slow the speeding locomotive. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/231 "2019-09-18T15:10:04Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’m a layman, but we can do amazing things now. Like analyze a video and get feet per second of a moving object. I personally don’t know anything, but we know how objects in Earth’s gravity well behave according to physics > > These are know facts, laws of nature. > > How do you explain the buildings collapse approaching terminal velocity? In all the threads you have participated in on this subject how do you explain your inability to accept answers given over and over and over again? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/232 "2019-09-18T15:12:15Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes yes, my cites are dubious but yours are above reproach of course. Have you ever given us a cite from a peer-reviewed journal? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/233 "2019-09-18T15:12:27Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’m a layman, but we can do amazing things now. Like analyze a video and get feet per second of a moving object. I personally don’t know anything, but we know how objects in Earth’s gravity well behave according to physics > > These are know facts, laws of nature. > > How do you explain the buildings collapse approaching terminal velocity? By saying it didn’t, and that this claim has been debunked. 9/11 Truthers CLAIMED this, but as with everything else, their claim is false. Getting them to admit it, however, has gone as well as getting them to admit the other myriad errors or intentional deceptions they have perpetrated. Don’t believe me? It’s really, really easy to prove this one. Watch one of the towers fall. See the debris that is falling away from the tower going down? The large pieces falling around the tower but not in the central area? Notice anything strange? You would if you watched it. You would notice that those pieces are falling faster than the main collapse. Know why? Because those pieces ARE in free fall. And they are not falling at the same speed as the tower is collapsing. This is so easy to debunk, yet you guys are STILL using it despite that. And this is just one of myriad deceptions and lies that the Truthers tell. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/234 "2019-09-18T15:13:08Z")
So if it was a tube that the floors just slid down the tube should have been standing right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/235 "2019-09-18T15:15:45Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > So if it was a tube that the floors just slid down the tube should have been standing right? Who made that claim? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/236 "2019-09-18T15:18:56Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > So if it was a tube that the floors just slid down the tube should have been standing right? In several videos you can see that the lower part of the central tube was left standing for a brief moment. But it wasn’t meant to stand free and came down very shortly thereafter. BTW, this is not a cite, this is random nitpicking. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/237 "2019-09-18T15:19:02Z")
A few post above says it was just a tube with sticks ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/238 "2019-09-18T15:20:41Z")
So you guys are saying the sticks attached to the tube wouldn’t pull the tube down as well ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/239 "2019-09-18T15:21:04Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > A few post above says it was just a tube with sticks This is not a cite. This is nitpicking. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/240 "2019-09-18T15:22:48Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > So you guys are saying the sticks attached to the tube wouldn’t pull the tube down as well If you want to know why 911 truthers are laughed at on this board, just take a look at this level of gameplaying. Earlier split was complaining that his nobly and honestly given cites were rejected cruelly, but a few posts later he is playing the standard truther games. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=13)