# WTC7 collapse, new numerical results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064 "2019-09-11T19:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/261 "2019-09-18T15:52:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Can you put this in terms that a simple caveman like myself would understand? I can’t follow your esoteric civil engineering jargon that you are using here. I’ll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed? Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/262 "2019-09-18T15:54:54Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’ll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed? > > Is that correct? You’ve managed to be even more confusing. Congrats! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/263 "2019-09-18T15:56:19Z")
STOP IT, you guys. Just STOP IT! \*\*split p&j \*\*obviously _knows_ something we don’t. Let’s hear him out. Go on then, **split p&j**. Share your wisdom and insight with the rest of us. What _really_ happened? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/264 "2019-09-18T15:57:18Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’ll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed? > > Is that correct? I read what he said, and he didn’t say that. Why don’t you ask questions about what people actually say instead of putting words in their mouths? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/265 "2019-09-18T15:57:58Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Of course they did. That’s the point I was making. Yes, I know, I was trying to emphasize that fact, since he seemed to blow right by it. Of course the attempt was fruitless. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/266 "2019-09-18T15:58:39Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Yes, I know, I was trying to emphasize that fact, since he seemed to blow right by it. Of course the attempt was fruitless. :smack: Ah, sorry…my bad. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/267 "2019-09-18T16:00:40Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Ejected? By what means? I’m sure you are implying explosives. Here’s a hint: Explosives aren’t very good for pushing things like that. > > No. They were individual pieces of the tower that, probably somewhat ahead of the chaotic mass of building material, struck some part of the building that hadn’t lost structural integrity yet. the angular momentum was thus changed to impart some horizontal momentum to those smaller pieces (small being relative to the huge mass of building coming down). This allowed said pieces to continue unhindered by anything but the air underneath it. In a few cases the horizontal momentum was enough to make it a decent distance from the tower. Not unexpected. > > I now expect this explanation to be either ignored or nitpicked with the usual “What about _wah!_” followed by “what about _wahwah_!” with no actual scientific support for said nitpicking. > > Who? Frames Per Second. This kind of thing is easily measured by anybody now. It wasn’t like that in '01. You can calculate velocity from that as I’m sure you know. From that we know those members were moving far beyond the veloicity that could be achieved by gravity alone. In fact they were explosively thrown. ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/268 "2019-09-18T16:00:45Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Why. We know how things behave, it’s not a mystery now. We can now examine the video’s and see some thing is wrong with the official story. No, you don’t. You think you know how things behave and you will refuse to believe any evidence that conflicts with your beliefs. What other explanation is there besides the official one? Buildings fell down after being hit by planes. That’s it. A controlled demolition? No one can look at the collapse of the South Tower and say it was a controlled demolition. It’s impossible. [9/11, World Trade Center South Tower Falls - 52 Clips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_64RigP1Fk) (YouTube) So if it’s not the official story and not a controlled demolition, what is it? Aliens? A space laser? Magic? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/269 "2019-09-18T16:01:36Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’ll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed? > > Is that correct? You quoted him. Right there. He didn’t say anything about this. He ASKED YOU to explain, in simply ‘caveman’ terms. Instead, you tossed this back at him while continuing to make the false claim about ‘near free fall speed’. So, I’m going to go with no…that is not correct. And, yeah…we totally see what you are doing. And, no…sadly, it’s not working for you. Not even a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/270 "2019-09-18T16:05:19Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > STOP IT, you guys. Just STOP IT! > > \*\*split p&j \*\*obviously _knows_ something we don’t. > > Let’s hear him out. Go on then, **split p&j**. Share your wisdom and insight with the rest of us. What _really_ happened? I don’t know what happened. I know your trying to trap me. All I know for sure is that the official story is not true, its an easily proven lie that people choose to believe for comfort. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/271 "2019-09-18T16:07:21Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Frames Per Second. This kind of thing is easily measured by anybody now. It wasn’t like that in '01. You can calculate velocity from that as I’m sure you know. > > From that we know those members were moving far beyond the veloicity that could be achieved by gravity alone. > > In fact they were explosively thrown. If you go by that, then how do you explain the ejected debris falling faster than the building is collapsing, if it’s collapsing at ‘free fall speeds’? That would mean said debris would be under acceleration. BTW, you don’t have to use FPS. They actually have seismic data that shows the planes hitting, the start of the collapse and when the final large bit hit. Of course, you wouldn’t know about or trust that, so you are using FPS and then not thinking about how this actually would bring up a ton of additional questions, if your (or more likely some Truthers) interpretation of that FPS video is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/272 "2019-09-18T16:08:17Z")
> [@Monocracy](#): > > [9/11, World Trade Center South Tower Falls - 52 Clips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_64RigP1Fk) (YouTube) [Debris falling faster than the rest of the tower, and in the vertical rather than the horizontal.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_64RigP1Fk&t=1m3s) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/273 "2019-09-18T16:09:43Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’ll try. Your saying that a building with floors attached to its core, with the core attached to the ground would collapse to the ground at near free fall speed? > > Is that correct? If I’m parsing that correctly, then that’s not only not what anyone is saying, it’s actually the opposite of what people are saying. Let’s be clear here: THE BUILDING DID NOT FALL AT FREEFALL OR “NEAR-FREEFALL” (whatever that means) SPEED. And we’re not trying to “trap” you. We’re pointing out that the thing you “know for sure” isn’t true, isn’t supported by science, and relies on false data. You say the official story is an “easily proven lie” but you haven’t even come close to proving anything of the sort, and you keep repeating statements about the events of the day that are themselves easily debunked. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/274 "2019-09-18T16:11:19Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I don’t know what happened. I know your trying to trap me. All I know for sure is that the official story is not true, its an easily proven lie that people choose to believe for comfort. Are any of the stories being put out by “Truthers” untrue? Are there any conspiracy theories being put out there that you would like to debunk? Or does this work like psychic fairs, where you may believe that the man in the booth next to you is full of shit, but the lot of you agree not to attack each other out of loyalty? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/275 "2019-09-18T16:11:38Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Frames Per Second. This kind of thing is easily measured by anybody now. It wasn’t like that in '01. You can calculate velocity from that as I’m sure you know. > > From that we know those members were moving far beyond the veloicity that could be achieved by gravity alone. Show your work. Who is this “we” to whom you refer? Show your work. > [@](#): > > In fact they were explosively thrown. Explosives that would “throw” would be a stunningly poor use of explosives for building demolition. Explosives best “throw” things when confined in direction (i.e. a cannon barrel). If your explosives are tossing I-Beams your are doing something remarkably wrong with your demolition project. If you are using enough explosives to toss I-beams out & downward faster than gravity I think someone would hear them even in that unpopulated, desolate wasteland of Lower Manhattan. Explosives in demolition projects are used to cut, not throw. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/276 "2019-09-18T16:16:08Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Show your work. Who is this “we” to whom you refer? > > Show your work. > > Explosives that would “throw” would be a stunningly poor use of explosives for building demolition. Explosives best “throw” things when confined in direction (i.e. a cannon barrel). If your explosives are tossing I-Beams your are doing something remarkably wrong with your demolition project. If you are using enough explosives to toss I-beams out & downward faster than gravity I think someone would hear them even in that unpopulated, desolate wasteland of Lower Manhattan. > > Explosives in demolition projects are used to cut, not throw. Yup. But even IF we assume explosives threw out large chunks of the building (large pieces of concrete and structural supports), even if they initially threw them downward (somehow), they aren’t going to continue to fall faster than the supposedly free falling structure because they aren’t under any sort of external acceleration at that point…just the same old gravity we all have to deal with (it’s the law!). Yet, they ARE falling faster than the collapsing core. Which means one of two things. Either they are under acceleration (other than gravity) or…the whole building is collapsing at free fall or ‘near’ free fall is horseshit. Now, using my handy dandy Occam’s Razor… ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/277 "2019-09-18T16:17:36Z")
> [@Monocracy](#): > > No, you don’t. You think you know how things behave and you will refuse to believe any evidence that conflicts with your beliefs. > > What other explanation is there besides the official one? Buildings fell down after being hit by planes. That’s it. > > A controlled demolition? No one can look at the collapse of the South Tower and say it was a controlled demolition. It’s impossible. [9/11, World Trade Center South Tower Falls - 52 Clips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_64RigP1Fk) (YouTube) > > So if it’s not the official story and not a controlled demolition, what is it? Aliens? A space laser? Magic? I don’t know what to say to this. Of course it wasn’t controlled in an old building way. that was kind of the point, shock and awe. I don’t want to be an ass, but wake up. We are about to go to war Iran, for no real reason. Millions died in the wars after this 911 BS. Do you really believe they give a shit about 3000, 5000, 10,000 life’s? Just because they are in the US.? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/278 "2019-09-18T16:18:06Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I don’t know what happened. I know your trying to trap me. All I know for sure is that the official story is not true, its an easily proven lie that people choose to believe for comfort. “People choose to believe for comfort” - please elaborate. 9/11 was in no way comforting. What truth are we hiding from? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/279 "2019-09-18T16:20:02Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yup. But even IF we assume explosives threw out large chunks of the building (large pieces of concrete and structural supports), even if they initially threw them downward (somehow), they aren’t going to continue to fall faster than the supposedly free falling structure because they aren’t under any sort of external acceleration at that point…just the same old gravity we all have to deal with (it’s the law!). Yet, they ARE falling faster than the collapsing core. Which means one of two things. Either they are under acceleration (other than gravity) or…the whole building is collapsing at free fall or ‘near’ free fall is horseshit. > > Now, using my handy dandy Occam’s Razor… This is bs. You know I’m talking about the initial outward force. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/280 "2019-09-18T16:21:49Z")
i liked the guy, who thought the planes should have instantly disintegrated against the buildings and rain pulverized airplane down on unsuspecting bystanders below, better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=15)