# WTC7 collapse, new numerical results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064 "2019-09-11T19:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/301 "2019-09-18T17:03:02Z")
I know the thread is dead, and XT is smarter than me. Just remember the columns were thrown much further than the force of gravity alone would tell us, and yes they fell faster because they were accelerated at the beginning. The whole point is that in a pure gravity collapse they should have been much closer the top section, and falling and near the same speed. Remember the only acceleration should be due to gravity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/302 "2019-09-18T17:05:09Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I know the thread is dead, and XT is smarter than me. Just remember the columns were thrown much further than the force of gravity alone would tell us, and yes they fell faster because they were accelerated at the beginning. The whole point is that in a pure gravity collapse they should have been much closer the top section, and falling and near the same speed. Remember the only acceleration should be due to gravity. Because you say so? ---
**Author:** ![Monocracy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monocracy/32/4493_2.png) [@Monocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monocracy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/303 "2019-09-18T17:07:06Z")
Wait, I thought the official Truther complaint was that the debris fell too close to the footprint. Now it’s because the debris landed too far away? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/304 "2019-09-18T17:13:14Z")
I’ve been around explosives and crashing trains. They are not alike. How ever, of course the columns were moving faster. That’s my point, they were accelerated beyond the force of gravity alone… They went out then down, the top section could not have accelerated them to that speed by gravity alone. In fact everything would have slowed down to the point that the columns should have been much closer to the top section. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/305 "2019-09-18T17:16:42Z")
[These objects falling faster than the rest of 2 are “columns”?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_64RigP1Fk&t=1m) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/306 "2019-09-18T17:17:09Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I know the thread is dead, and XT is smarter than me. Just remember the columns were thrown much further than the force of gravity alone would tell us, This is patently untrue and you have failed to show why your claim might be true in any way. > [@](#): > > and yes they fell faster because they were accelerated at the beginning. Again, you have failed utterly to show this is the case in any way. Just repeating it is not proof of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/307 "2019-09-18T17:18:09Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’ve been around explosives and crashing trains. They are not alike. > > How ever, of course the columns were moving faster. That’s my point, they were accelerated beyond the force of gravity alone… They went out then down, the top section could not have accelerated them to that speed by gravity alone. In fact everything would have slowed down to the point that the columns should have been much closer to the top section. Again, no proof, math or evidence of what you are claiming. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/308 "2019-09-18T17:18:54Z")
> [@Monocracy](#): > > Wait, I thought the official Truther complaint was that the debris fell too close to the footprint. Now it’s because the debris landed too far away? Cute statement, another bait trap. Sure, it was semi controlled, you get that right? Acceptable losses? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/309 "2019-09-18T17:23:18Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Again, no proof, math or evidence of what you are claiming. How can I? You don’t accept my cites, look at the videos. Work out the FPS and then convert the velocity. See for yourself if gravity alone can justify those accelerations ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/310 "2019-09-18T17:23:25Z")
> [@XT](#): > > But what there wasn’t, and there is no evidence for, are building demolition explosives. There was no evidence of caps, no nests of wires or all the other myriad stuff that ACTUAL explosives need to be there to have them work. If we posit all wireless (in 2001) explosives, we have no evidence of that either. People have this idea that when you blow up stuff that it disappears, but that simply isn’t true. There would be LOTS of evidence, especially if they wired multiple floors. Some device would have failed, or some evidence would have been left. But there is literally zero evidence of this, despite multiple groups looking for it. In particular, in a conventional controlled demolition project the metal itself shows signs of explosives having been used. Controlled Demo does not just ‘blast’ I-Beams into breaking. They are set up to turn the explosives into a jet of plasma that cuts the remainder of the beam (the beam having been partially cut already with a torch). This shows up quite obviously as a discoloration on the metal where the explosives were attached. None of this was seen at ground zero and many members of the cleanup crew would have noticed this coloration on the metal. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/311 "2019-09-18T17:26:06Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > How can I? Anything! You literally have given us no cites. The last time I could find all you said was “I counter with AE911T” which is sad a reference as you could get. > [@](#): > > You don’t accept my cites, You haven’t given any. > [@](#): > > look at the videos. Work out the FPS and then convert the velocity. No. This would _your job_. Prove your claims already. > [@](#): > > See for yourself if gravity alone can justify those accelerations Your arguments are basically: “I think you are wrong, to prove it I demant you prove to yourself you are wrong, I’ll be over hear stuffing my face with cupcakes” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/312 "2019-09-18T17:27:33Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Cute statement, another bait trap. No, it an example of Truther’s constantly self-contradicting narrative: “The debris fell into its footprint except where it didn’t!” > [@](#): > > Sure, it was semi controlled, you get that right? Acceptable losses? This is a pretty meaningless comment. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/313 "2019-09-18T17:28:20Z")
I miss the poster who insisted the Egyptians used geysers to build the Pyramids. \*That \*was entertaining. \*This \*is sad. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/314 "2019-09-18T17:30:48Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > How can I? > > You don’t accept my cites _What_ cites?? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/315 "2019-09-18T17:37:57Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > The whole point is that in a pure gravity collapse they should have been much closer the top section, and falling and near the same speed. Remember the only acceleration should be due to gravity. Jesus, you’re just all over the place. Truthers have been saying for years that the collapses were too fast because the top section fell too fast, it should have been slowed by the resistance of the lower parts of the buildings, and now you’re telling us that the pieces falling beside the top section, which are completely detached from the top section, should have been “much closer the top section, and falling and near the same speed”? What? WTF does that even mean? Can you draw us a diagram or something, because you’re clearly incapable of explaining it in words. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/316 "2019-09-18T17:39:42Z")
It’s not meaningless. There was a goal, and sure, casualties were to be minimum. The expolsive and incendiary devices are well know now, but remember we are talking almost 20 years here. How many people in say 1987 knew what our MIC was capable of at the time? Your look for things you know now with weld marks and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/317 "2019-09-18T17:41:34Z")
I guess we’re on stealth demolition charges / super-nano-thermite now. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/318 "2019-09-18T17:42:03Z")
Please learn to quote properly. > [@split\_p\_j](#): > > The expolsive and incendiary devices are well know now, but remember we are talking almost 20 years here. What does this even mean?! > [@](#): > > How many people in say 1987 knew what our MIC was capable of at the time? Your look for things you know now with weld marks and all that. All the military money in the world won’t change the fact that you can’t hide the effects of explosives or how they are used. You cannot invoke the military as your ‘wizzard diddit’. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/319 "2019-09-18T17:43:52Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > I guess we’re on stealth demolition charges / super-nano-thermite now. Super Nano-thermite that throws I-beams, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/320 "2019-09-18T17:49:46Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > It’s not meaningless. There was a goal, and sure, casualties were to be minimum. The expolsive and incendiary devices are well know now, but remember we are talking almost 20 years here. What was the goal? Who gave the order? Who planted the devices? What is known about the planted devices? Who set them off? Did they lie in wait for the terrorists to come up with the plot or did they train the terrorists as part of the plot? Who is they? What was accomplished? Was it successful? How did they keep all the inside players from talking to reporters or writing a book? If the secret was so well kept, how do you know about it? If you know about it, why hasn’t the media picked up the story? Is the media in on it too? So many questions, I can barely contain my curiosity about what you know and how you know it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=17)