# WTC7 collapse, new numerical results **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064 "2019-09-11T19:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/121 "2019-09-13T16:20:12Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > An organization whose goal is to promote conspiracy theories And is not above pushing manipulated footage when trying to garner support. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/122 "2019-09-13T16:20:13Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Only small percentage of that 10000 gallons of fuel would have been available to burn the building. Certainly some evaporated or splattered away. I have not seen anyone state that jet fuel is great for burning steel buildings. I do not even know if jet fuel would burn in such a way as facilitate fires in the buildings. WTF!? You need someone to “state” that jet fuel is an accelerant and would burn in such a way to facilitate a fire? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/123 "2019-09-13T16:24:45Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > WTF!? > You need someone to “state” that jet fuel is an accelerant and would burn in such a way to facilitate a fire? Who knew that jet fuel was combustible? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/124 "2019-09-13T16:29:08Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Who knew that jet fuel was combustible? Former Strategic Air Command Crew Chief here. Jet fuel is combustible. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/125 "2019-09-13T16:33:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Former Strategic Air Command Crew Chief here. > Jet fuel is combustible. So you’re saying members of the military would know? Lending further credibility to the idea that this was a conspiracy involving the US government. Because no civilian would ever think to use jet fuel as a pretense to bring down a couple of buildings. And yet it’s just plausible enough to serve as a cover story for the truth… ETA: That’s a joke. I feel I have to be clear on that point because, standing beside some of the other things said in this thread, I realize there’s room for ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/126 "2019-09-13T16:36:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Former Strategic Air Command Crew Chief here. > Jet fuel is combustible. Well I would never have thought that the fuel for an internal combustion engine was used for combustion. What else is the military keeping from us??? ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/127 "2019-09-13T16:37:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Former Strategic Air Command Crew Chief here. > Jet fuel is combustible. AHA! If they’d used a safer non-combustible jet fuel, we might not even be having this conversation. It’s the old helium vs. hydrogen debate all over! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/128 "2019-09-13T16:51:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Former Strategic Air Command Crew Chief here. > Jet fuel is combustible. [Awwwlrighty then!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlLPogmB8M8) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/129 "2019-09-13T17:36:05Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > WTF!? > You need someone to “state” that jet fuel is an accelerant and would burn in such a way to facilitate a fire? Yeah, this jet fuel argument is the equivalent of claiming a match can’t burn down a house. It’s like they never noticed that _fire spreads._ ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/130 "2019-09-13T18:13:47Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > WTF!? > You need someone to “state” that jet fuel is an accelerant and would burn in such a way to facilitate a fire? Are gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, and rocket fuel different in any significant way? While they are all combustible and dangerous, jet fuel may not burn efficiently without certain conditions such as pressure and proper vaporization. Jet fuel has a much lower volatility than gasoline. One could argue that much of the jet fuel never even burned but simply spilled away. Without some sort of containment, the fuel may have burned so quickly that could not do the damage that is claimed. That’s what I’m asking. I don’t have that answer and posting a link to a Living Color video doesn’t help. Beyond that, why was the fire so devastating? Doesn’t New York have fire inspectors that would mandate non flammable furnishings and limiting the amount flammable substances. It seems to me if the approved narrative is true, massive changes to the fire code are needed. Why haven’t they been changed? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/131 "2019-09-13T18:21:06Z")
Not only do they not have rules for humungous passenger jets flying into buildings, would you believe they have no regs concerning massive meteor strikes?? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/132 "2019-09-13T18:22:10Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Beyond that, why was the fire so devastating? Doesn’t New York have fire inspectors that would mandate non flammable furnishings and limiting the amount flammable substances. It seems to me if the approved narrative is true, massive changes to the fire code are needed. Why haven’t they been changed? [They were changed.](https://www.fireengineering.com/2011/08/29/206170/9-11-code-changes/#gref) Of course they were changed. _Obviously_ they were changed. The real question is, why on Earth would you think that they _hadn’t_ been changed? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/133 "2019-09-13T18:24:21Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Are gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, and rocket fuel different in any significant way? While they are all combustible and dangerous, jet fuel may not burn efficiently without certain conditions such as pressure and proper vaporization. Jet fuel has a much lower volatility than gasoline. One could argue that much of the jet fuel never even burned but simply spilled away. Without some sort of containment, the fuel may have burned so quickly that could not do the damage that is claimed. That’s what I’m asking. > > I don’t have that answer and posting a link to a Living Color video doesn’t help. > > Beyond that, why was the fire so devastating? Doesn’t New York have fire inspectors that would mandate non flammable furnishings and limiting the amount flammable substances. It seems to me if the approved narrative is true, massive changes to the fire code are needed. Why haven’t they been changed? Just how much energy do you think it took to disintegrate a jet going 500+ mph? Are you saying that it wouldn’t be enough to ignite the fuel and everything else? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/134 "2019-09-13T18:26:36Z")
Here’s a test of a plane wreck that doesn’t even require full disintegration of the plane. See those huge flames? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/G7lBeaceQKg/hqdefault.jpg "NASA 707 Crash Test - MAD EXPLOSION!!!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7lBeaceQKg) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/135 "2019-09-13T18:28:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Well I would never have thought that the fuel for an internal combustion engine was used for combustion. What else is the military keeping from us??? Wait - “internal”?? No wonder spraying jet fuel on the outside of my engine wasn’t working. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/136 "2019-09-13T18:38:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [They were changed.](https://www.fireengineering.com/2011/08/29/206170/9-11-code-changes/#gref) Of course they were changed. _Obviously_ they were changed. > > The real question is, why on Earth would you think that they _hadn’t_ been changed? Did you read your own cite? None of the changes were would have mitigated the fires. Saved lives, yes. But I did not read anything about reducing flammables and fires themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/137 "2019-09-13T18:39:35Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Are gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, and rocket fuel different in any significant way? While they are all combustible and dangerous, jet fuel may not burn efficiently without certain conditions such as pressure and proper vaporization. Jet fuel has a much lower volatility than gasoline. One could argue that much of the jet fuel never even burned but simply spilled away. Without some sort of containment, the fuel may have burned so quickly that could not do the damage that is claimed. That’s what I’m asking. There are an awful lot of uses of the word may in that post. With certain circumstances/models it may have been possible for a plane to crash into the World trade center without bringing it down. But apparently those circumstances/models didn’t apply that day because the towers did in fact collapse. We’ve done the experiment, so we know the answer. Just think of it as a giant tragic episode of myth busters. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/138 "2019-09-13T18:41:18Z")
What if we made buildings out of the same material they use to make airplane black boxes? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/139 "2019-09-13T18:44:35Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Did you read your own cite? > > None of the changes were would have mitigated the fires. Saved lives, yes. But I did not read anything about reducing flammables and fires themselves. For the simple reason that making a building that is impervious to jet liner crash is totally impractical. Aren’t you one of those people who are complaining that there are too many burdensome regulations? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064/140 "2019-09-13T18:49:20Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Did you read your own cite? > > None of the changes were would have mitigated the fires. Saved lives, yes. But I did not read anything about reducing flammables and fires themselves. HEY, WAIT! I’ve got a new complaint! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtc7-collapse-new-numerical-results/840064.md?page=8)