# WTF?!?! A Plane Crash in Harlem?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 12, 2001, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913 "2001-11-12T14:29:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/101 "2001-11-12T16:36:38Z")
Isn’t it a sick, sad, crazy world when we can say things like “a normal plane crash” and know what each other means and understand why that’s supposed to be a reassuring explanation of a horrible tragedy? I’m not criticizing anyone for making that distinction (I completely get what you mean) but isn’t it sad that a phrase like that (a) makes sense and (b) is in some way “good news?” !@#\*%&ing terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/102 "2001-11-12T16:39:00Z")
Of side interest to this thread, there is a “back door” into the CNN site which usually works quite well when the main site is bogged down. Try [http://robots.cnn.com](http://robots.cnn.com) . ---
**Author:** ![bobjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@bobjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobjones)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/103 "2001-11-12T16:44:05Z")
This pretty much ended any speculation of terrorism for me: [http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/16/airbus.300.safety/](http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/16/airbus.300.safety/) ---
**Author:** ![Skerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Skerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skerri)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/104 "2001-11-12T16:44:14Z")
I got a phone call about 9:30 this morning from my best friend’s father in Paris. Apparently news spread pretty quickly. My nephew’s roommate from the Citadel is from Queens. Oddly enough, he is in Charleston right now. He has been trying to get in touch with his mother, but to no avail. He said his mom lives a ways away from Rockaway Beach. I have to agree on the whole Veterans Day theory. A little too coincidental for my taste… ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/105 "2001-11-12T16:48:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*Isn’t it a sick, sad, crazy world when we can say things like “a normal plane crash” and know what each other means and understand why that’s supposed to be a reassuring explanation of a horrible tragedy? > > I’m not criticizing anyone for making that distinction (I completely get what you mean) but isn’t it sad that a phrase like that (a) makes sense and (b) is in some way “good news?” > > !@#\*%&ing terrorists. \*\* Yeah, I get what you mean - even as I was “saying” calm down, it looks like it’s just a normal accident, I was cringing inside. I suppose to the people on the plane, and those in the way on the ground, it doesn’t really matter. I haven’t decided why, but it does matter to me…maybe I’m trying to return to “the good old days” where such things just don’t happen. I’m not sure if that makes me a good or a bad person…perhaps neither. Maybe it just makes me a fool who’d like to hide his head under the blankets and say it can’t happen again. God help me, I hope it was an accident. ---
**Author:** ![Soda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@Soda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soda)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/106 "2001-11-12T16:48:49Z")
Non-US doper reporting. Swedish public service television is covering as well as they can. I just switched channels, so I don’t know if it’s been covered since it was reported. Right now it’s a lot of talk about bin Ladin, and if he’s involved at all. Channel 4, who did a _much_ better job covering the 9-11 events, only broadcast short news sessions between scheduled programming. So far anyway. I haven’t been able to access the newspapers’ websites, there’s too much traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/107 "2001-11-12T16:51:57Z")
Those Airbuses were crashing at **1 per year for the last 10 years!?** WTF? Does this not throw up red flags with the FAA? ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/108 "2001-11-12T17:04:33Z")
To be fair, bobjones’s cite clearly states that those crashes all occurred upon landing, and likely involved clashes between manual operations and auto-pilot programs. I don’t know enough about flying planes to say for sure, but I believe that _take-offs_ are done manually. Any one able to confirm/deny this? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/109 "2001-11-12T17:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > A little too coincidental for my taste… for your taste. At the moment, there is NOTHING to suggest terrorist activity. If there is, I will gladly retract this, but there is no need at the moment to start the rumour mill. Keep the heads clear everyone, until we know more its best to stay rational. John (who hates the fact that I had to say that.) ---
**Author:** ![Wicked\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/2acd7d/32.png) [@Wicked\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wicked_Blue)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/110 "2001-11-12T17:18:47Z")
Ari Fleischer (White House Press Secretary) just said that reports of the FBI saying that an explosion on board before the crash was untrue. That’s good to hear. Makes it seem more like a ‘regular’ plane crash. Rose ---
**Author:** ![Skerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Skerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skerri)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/111 "2001-11-12T17:29:22Z")
**Twist** , I really wasn’t trying to incite any paranoia. News media has a way of blowing things out of proportion, and for the past half hour on CNN they’ve been mentioning the Veterans’ Day connection. In any case, the government and military are still on alert, just to be safe. Current reports do keep mentioning the potential for mechanical failure, and there is still speculation about an explosion on the plane. (I cannot remember the man who commented on it, but he said that it was more than likely due to hydraulics in the engine that fell that caused the explosion.) This was on CNN a few moments ago. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/112 "2001-11-12T17:53:48Z")
I’m reminded of a quote from DS9: “I believe in coincidences, coincidences happen all the time. I just don’t _trust_ coincidences” In these times, it’s easy to understand why people are having a time trusting this to be a coincidence. But it is important to remember that planes do crash periodically from innocent if tragic causes. ---
**Author:** ![dristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@dristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dristor)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/113 "2001-11-12T18:04:55Z")
On BBC Radio 5, they’ve just had a terrorism expert from King’s College, London say that he thinks it may have been a terrorist attack. 3 reasons: the time of the day is very close to that time on 9-11; it happened in New York; and it was Veteran’s day… ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/114 "2001-11-12T18:14:08Z")
Skerri, sory to pick on your post, but I hope you realise that it was your post I used and not you 😉 A Quick reminder. there have been No confirmed reports of an explosion in the plane. Everything points to it being a coincidence. I’m just expecting a Nostradamus quadrant in my mail at any moment. ---
**Author:** ![phartizan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba8739/32.png) [@phartizan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phartizan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/115 "2001-11-12T18:21:53Z")
Phartizette & I have already booked a flight to Europe. I’ve got to admit I breathed a sigh of relief that we hadn’t chosen the change-of-planes in Newark, but **we are still going**. And if the plane crashes, I don’t care what they wrap me in. [sub]Though I don’t think they’ll find what’s left of me in clean underwear.[/sub] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by belladonna \* > \*\*I think when I die, I’d rather not end up wrapped in some kids Hello Kitty bedsheets. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/116 "2001-11-12T18:24:01Z")
New York has several airports and hundreds, if not thousands, of flights originating from there every day. The morning is one of the busiest times of the day for air travel. You could probably find some anniversary link to an event occuring on most any day. I don’t find Veterans day overwhelmingly related to the terrorist’s dislike of our Palestinian policies, at least no more so than Memorial Day, President’s Day, etc. JMHO ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/117 "2001-11-12T18:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dristor \* > \*\*On BBC Radio 5, they’ve just had a terrorism expert from King’s College, London say that he thinks it may have been a terrorist attack. 3 reasons: the time of the day is very close to that time on 9-11; it happened in New York; and it was Veteran’s day… \*\* I am not a “terrorism expert”, but I believe this same thought is occurring to many, many people. I’ve certainly heard it expressed by several people here in the office. One does not have to be an expert to recognize these coincidences. I grimace at people who are referred to as “experts” while they spout the incredibly obvious. Maybe it’s just me. I apologize for not contributing anything constructive to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/118 "2001-11-12T18:43:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by enipla \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by CnoteChris \* > > \*\*Well, here comes my thought. > > > > I’ve been wondering this for days now- wouldn’t it be possible for a terrorist or whoever to down a plane on take-off or landing by simply firing an AK-47 or some similar weapon from the ground up to the plane? > > > > If you hit the engine or the wing, it seems to me you’d have something similar to what happened here. > > > > Not a fun thought, I know, but something I can’t help but keep wondering lately with all the scenarios floating around. \*\* > > I have thought about the same thing but I think you would have to be incredibly lucky to down an airliner with an assault rifle. Five people at the end of the runway might be able to do it. > > Regardless, this is not going to help our Country or airline industry. Don’t let this stop you from flying. \*\* In the interests of accuracy, a much more likely scenerio for a terrorist attack would be two people on the flight paths out of JFK armed with an [SA-7 “Grail”](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm)(or similar, the U.S. version is the REDEYE) man portable anti-aircraft weapon. Civilian airliners are NOT equiped with detection devices for attack, or defenses such as chaff dispensers or IR jammers. Understand, all _preliminary_ reports are consistant with an accident, **NOT** any type of attack. I myself have a flight booked to Canada Friday. I am still going, even if this later turns out to be an attack. I’ll be damned if I’ll allow these rat-bastards to rearrange MY life. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/119 "2001-11-12T19:20:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dristor \* > \*\*On BBC Radio 5, they’ve just had a terrorism expert from King’s College, London say that he thinks it may have been a terrorist attack. 3 reasons: the time of the day is very close to that time on 9-11; it happened in New York; and it was Veteran’s day… \*\* That’s all an “expert” could come up with? Sounds like a juvenile and irresponsible thing to report at a time like this (not to sound too dramatic but you know what I mean.) ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913/120 "2001-11-12T19:34:29Z")
Today isn’t really Veteran’s Day, just the observance of it as far as getting a day off work. I would think if it’s terrorist activity, they’d want to tarnish our real observance, i.e., the day everyone went to the cemetaries and such, and they would have acted yesterday. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-a-plane-crash-in-harlem/92913.md?page=7)