# WTF Baltimore? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 27, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677 "2015-04-27T22:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/221 "2015-04-29T13:07:35Z")
I’m not going to get too much into this, but I didn’t see any mention of this yesterday so I will add this observation - as bad as Monday was, Tuesday was quite different. There were calls on Facebook for random people to show up at 11am to clean up the damage. It turned out to be a problem, not because there was too much damage or that the help was refused, it was because people showed up at 7am and cleaned everything up by 10am. By the afternoon the random volunteers were cleaning up empty lots that had nothing to do with the riots, they just wanted to do \*something \*while they were there. I saw octogenarians from very different backgrounds (read white & wealthy) hand in hand with young black families cleaning up. Spontaneous and unorganized. Driving around at noon near Pennsy & North I was still a bit nervous; there was a vibe in the air that still bothered me. However about an hour later I heard a gem on the scanner and truly appreciated that Tuesday was different: A call came in from the sergeant at Pennsylvania & North that someone was throwing bottles at them from the crowd. Command asked if they needed reinforcement. A half minute went by then a clearly relieved sergeant got back on and said “Nevermind, the crowd ejected the troublemaker” If you watched the curfew take effect it was amazing to see how little trouble there was. The few agitators there were at 10pm were driven away by 11 and the city had no more incidents than it normally does on any other night. Tuesday’s crowds, while still angry and trying to remain focused on their desire for change did not allow Monday to continue. Is it over? Will everything be okay? No, certainly not. I am sure there will be more serious problems in the next weeks, months and years ahead. Schools are open today and there will be a collective holding of breath when Frederick Douglass High School lets out (they are the kids that started the riot which bloomed across the city). But in all this I felt like a moment should be taken to show that it’s all not black & white (pun, no pun, whatever) and that regardless of the problem there is still hope driven by the people who wish for better in this world. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/222 "2015-04-29T13:18:12Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > there is still hope driven by the people who wish for better in this world. No doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/223 "2015-04-29T13:20:25Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > Schools are open today and there will be a collective holding of breath when Frederick Douglass High School lets out (they are the kids that started the riot which bloomed across the city). Well, [maybe](http://gawker.com/those-kids-were-set-up-1700716306). ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/224 "2015-04-29T14:31:27Z")
What’s the answer? If they were peaceably marching quietly with signs, they’d be easy to ignore. If rioting and wholesale destruction leads to any kind of police reform, that can make it look as though that’s an effective strategy. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/225 "2015-04-29T15:46:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, [maybe](http://gawker.com/those-kids-were-set-up-1700716306). It appears that “those kids” were circulating social media babble calling for a purge on the streets of Baltimore. Apparently, “those kids” are too stupid to realize that other kids might notify police and media outlets about the upcoming purge, and that the police and media might be waiting for them to arrive. :smack: \*After social-media alert to a ‘purge,’ police officers stood waiting - By Paul Duggan, DeNeen L. Brown and Peter Hermann April 28 **Hours before rioting erupted** on the streets of West Baltimore, a warning of the violence and fires to come began circulating on social media. It was a photo, taken Saturday, of a throng of angry demonstrators, two of them standing exultantly on the roof of a police car. The crowd was protesting the April 19 death of Freddie Gray, 25, who suffered a severe spinal injury while in Baltimore police custody, an injury that has yet to be fully explained. Superimposed on the photo, an ominous message: All High Schools Monday @3 We Going To Purge From Mondawmin, To The Ave, Back To Downtown #fdl …Police Commissioner Anthony W. Batts said about 300 officers were sent to the mall to meet students from two high schools who used social media to spread word of a “purge.” Police shut the subway station at 2:57 p.m.; it wasn’t clear when the “loop” with the bus stops shut down. Although classes at Douglass end at 4:05 p.m., a spokeswoman for the school system said some students “chose to leave early.” Around 3 p.m. (“@3,” as the posting put it), as scores of youths headed toward the mall, a battalion of officers stood waiting\*. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-media-helped-baltimore-police-plan-for-mayhem-but-taunts-escalated/2015/04/28/f87ab532-edbc-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-media-helped-baltimore-police-plan-for-mayhem-but-taunts-escalated/2015/04/28/f87ab532-edbc-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/226 "2015-04-29T15:55:11Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > What’s the answer? If they were peaceably marching quietly with signs, they’d be easy to ignore. If rioting and wholesale destruction leads to any kind of police reform, that can make it look as though that’s an effective strategy. Unless you were one of the thousands of victims of the looters, arsonists, thefts, and terrorism. Then you might conclude that the rioting and wholesale destruction was done by assholes who don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. _Oh boy! They burned down a future nursing home, and a drug store, and scared off any company that might be considering opening a business in the area._ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/227 "2015-04-29T16:09:39Z")
Remember, kids: you should always judge a group by its worst members. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/228 "2015-04-29T16:12:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Remember, kids: you should always judge a group by its worst members. This will be replacing the “Fighting ignorance since 1973 (It’s taking longer than we thought)” as the board motto as it seems as mandatory as black text and arial font. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/229 "2015-04-29T16:13:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Remember, kids: you should always judge a group by its worst members. Are you referring to police officers? Or mayors? Or the media outlets? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/230 "2015-04-29T16:17:32Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Are you referring to police officers? Or mayors? Or the media outlets? Heh. My stock in Baltimore based retail chain Looters R Us (for all your looting needs) skyrocketed recently. Then it went way down. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/231 "2015-04-29T16:34:25Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > One can, and indeed one must, reform the police - but no doubt they got that way because they are policing an area remarkable for its high levels of crime (and consequently low tax base). Plus the ruinious ‘War on Drugs’, which has lead to both corruption and brutality. The need for reform has always been (have no fucking clue what Hillary means by “restore balance” to criminal justice system, 'cause there’s never really BEEN balance). Change rarely comes except when cost-benefit analysis demands it (political, monetary and, last but treated as least, societal good). On “no doubt [how] they got that way …”, I disagree that that aspect is anything more than a limited-scope part of the problem (and resolveable, with education). You’re leaving out the very relevant topic of **human nature**. To be sure, choosing to work in Sunshine USA means a “bad/rotten apple” (talk about awful euphemisms) pro’ly needs to be more creative when it comes to finding ways to find his/her jollies and take out X frustration or bad impulses, express loathing (actually self-loathing diverted) by way to exploit, subjugate, harm. Everyone has dealt with the surly or downright hostile person, whether it’s a waitress or a clerk or what have you. What happens when that person has the power and inclination to do far worse than fuck up your morning, day or week, or put a wrench in, say, your ability to drive (DMV clerk)? For those with improper or selfish motives/goals, the cop becomes the proverbial fox guarding the hen house, esp. when choosing to work in a major city. (Elsewhere, white folk like to think everyone’s Andy Griffith in Mayberry RFD or, if not, that whomever that had whatever done to them deserved whatever happened.) Like any job you can name, a significant number of workers are ill-suited for it or just plain bad at it – or _become_ ill-suited (like teachers or other public servants, good luck getting rid of them). There are some attracted because of the job security, the benefits and the ability to have influence over the lives of others, for better and/or worse (pretending to be a saint with X group, and meting out hell to another). In this case, being a poor fit, less than competent, less than squared away mentally (to be kind), when combined with the average human’s decidedly flexible integrity, can cause others considerable, life-changing (if not life-ending) misery. It ain’t like, say, a waitress who oughtn’t be a waitress … or a mail carrier who really ought to be a truck driver … or (topical/timely as to a young woman in Texas) who intensely dislikes childcare as a profession. People need to accept that inhabitants of jobs that come with an oath and responsibility are no more or less likely to be more moral or good at what they do than anyone else. They realize this intellectually, but perception and bias get in the way. People will tend to do right only when it doesn’t hurt them to do right, or costs less than doing wrong. You can apply that to any industry or organization. Humans (more often than not) suck, and do not often care to understand themselves let alone each other. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/232 "2015-04-29T22:06:58Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Are you referring to police officers? Or mayors? Or the media outlets? And when those people, with a bunch of institutional power, are held accountable like the common citizens are, do let us know. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/233 "2015-04-30T02:39:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > This stupid assertion again. I will repeat then - the right to “peacefully protest” ends when people around you are throwing rocks at police, burning cars and looting stores. The people who violated that right are not the police. It’s the people committing the violent acts. Once the police catch/arrest/disperse the violent thugs, your right to peacefully protest resumes. So the police, in stopping the violence, is in fact upholding your right to peacefully protest. And ti’s just as dumb the second time around. It’s not remotely true. You cannot by committing violence limit my freedom of speech or assembly. Only those who are violent give up their rights, not the ones who are still peaceful. And it would be horrible if it were true. All I’d have to do to stop protests would be to start committing violence. That perverse incentive already exists, but we don’t need to legislate it and make it worse. The idea that my rights rely on the actions of third parties is just not tenable. Protesters who do not commit violence continue to have the right to protest. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/234 "2015-04-30T02:59:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And ti’s just as dumb the second time around. It’s not remotely true. You cannot by committing violence limit my freedom of speech or assembly. Ok. If I come up to you and put you in a headlock, while putting a gag in your mouth, is that violence? Do you think that limits your freedom of speech? Then yes, I can, by committing violence limit your freedom of speech. Of course, it is the role of police to prevent that. Which is my point. > [@](#): > > The idea that my rights rely on the actions of third parties is just not tenable. Protesters who do not commit violence continue to have the right to protest. Of course they have that right. But the violent thugs in their midst can and do violate their right to protest - unless removed by the police. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/235 "2015-04-30T03:54:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ok. If I come up to you and put you in a headlock, while putting a gag in your mouth, is that violence? Do you think that limits your freedom of speech? Then yes, I can, by committing violence limit your freedom of speech. . . . This is a cheap and rather naive sleight of hand, moving from one dictionary definition of a word to another. Your “Freedom of Speech” as specified in the Constitution is not infringed if some violent thug jams a gag in your mouth. Your ability to exercise that right is sorely trespassed against, but not your Freedom. (Rush Limbaugh played the same infantile game when arguing that it’s okay to “discriminate,” since “discriminate” means to choose the better variety of goods and products when shopping.) Put your dictionary away when trying to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/236 "2015-04-30T04:02:11Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Your “Freedom of Speech” as specified in the Constitution is not infringed if some violent thug jams a gag in your mouth. Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/237 "2015-04-30T04:42:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Unless you were one of the thousands of victims of **the looters, arsonists, thefts, and terrorism**. (my bolding) Jesus dude, give it a rest. Are you a robot? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/238 "2015-04-30T05:25:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Hilarious. Derision is not rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/239 "2015-04-30T05:29:36Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Derision is not rebuttal. If you seriously think that literally gagging someone is not infringing on his freedom of speech, there isn’t much to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/240 "2015-04-30T13:24:16Z")
The freedom of speech “specified in the Constitution” ( **Trinopus** ’ phrasing) is a check on the government, not some jackass with a gag (unless he works for said government, of course.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677.md?page=13)