# WTF Baltimore? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 27, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677 "2015-04-27T22:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/241 "2015-04-30T13:35:03Z")
For reference purposes only - > [@Gyrate](#): > > Remember, kids: you should always judge a group by its worst members. Also for reference purposes only - > [@doorhinge](#): > > Are you referring to police officers? Or mayors? Or the media outlets? > [@Leaper](#): > > And when those people, with a bunch of institutional power, are held accountable like the common citizens are, do let us know. Is that what **Gyrate** meant? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/242 "2015-04-30T13:38:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Is that what **Gyrate** meant? I did intend to include police officers in that. I hadn’t been thinking about mayors and media outlets quite so much, but sure, whatever. Of course, I also meant to include high school students. And protesters. And black people in general. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/243 "2015-04-30T13:40:41Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > (my bolding) > > Jesus dude, give it a rest. Are you a robot? No. I’m something to a door. Do you like robots? Do you believe robots were deployed in Baltimore? Do you think robots should have been used before, during, or after the recent riots in Baltimore? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/244 "2015-04-30T13:43:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I did intend to include police officers in that. I hadn’t been thinking about mayors and media outlets quite so much, but sure, whatever. > > Of course, I also meant to include high school students. And protesters. And black people in general. What about red people? Or yellow people? Why do you exclude them? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/245 "2015-04-30T13:46:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You cannot by committing violence limit my freedom of speech or assembly. Only those who are violent give up their rights, not the ones who are still peaceful. A nice ideal, but not always practical. If you’re one of a few peaceful folks in a large group throwing stones at police, guess what’s going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/246 "2015-04-30T13:54:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What about red people? Or yellow people? Why do you exclude them? You’re so cute when you’re fishing for material to show liberal hypocrisy. But sure. Have you got any examples of yellow or red people being stereotyped in modern society based on the actions of a minority of them? I mean, I’m sure you have a reason for mentioning them. > [@Xema](#): > > A nice ideal, but not always practical. If you’re one of a few peaceful folks in a large group throwing stones at police, guess what’s going to happen. Or indeed one of a large group of peaceful folks with a small group of stonethrowers in the middle. The police tend to take an “arrest them all and let the justice system sort them out” (or even a “fuck it, just teargas them all”) approach rather than the fantastical surgical removal of troublemakers proposed above, simply because there’s only so much they can do realistically. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/247 "2015-04-30T14:10:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You’re so cute when you’re fishing for material to show liberal hypocrisy. > > But sure. Have you got any examples of yellow or red people being stereotyped in modern society based on the actions of a minority of them? I mean, I’m sure you have a reason for mentioning them. (post shortened) It doesn’t matter if I’m cute. This isn’t a dating site (this isn’t a dating site, is it? :eek: ). I was interested in your reason(s) for excluding them. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/248 "2015-04-30T14:17:30Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > It doesn’t matter if I’m cute. This isn’t a dating site (this isn’t a dating site, is it? :eek: ). > > I was interested in your reason(s) for excluding them. I wasn’t “excluding” them. I also wasn’t excluding tall people, Unitarians, people named Dave, brunettes, professional pet groomers or the Dutch despite not mentioning them. I was mentioning the specific groups I’d been thinking of in the context of the discussions in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/249 "2015-04-30T14:46:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I wasn’t “excluding” them. I also wasn’t excluding tall people, Unitarians, people named Dave, brunettes, professional pet groomers or the Dutch despite not mentioning them. I was mentioning the specific groups I’d been thinking of in the context of the discussions in this thread. Thanks for answering my questions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/250 "2015-04-30T17:13:52Z")
> **[Sheriff: 'I Was Sick To My Stomach' After Being Told To Stand Down](https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/sheriff-michael-lewis-on-the-stand-down-orders-given-to-city-officers/)** But what shocked him the most, he said, was when city police told him not to confront and accost the rioters. “I was sick to my stomach like everybody else. This was urban warfare no doubt about it. The city officers thanked us profusely and told us they were very capable of handling this, but they were repeatedly told to stand down,” he said. **“They were told to stand down and let them destroy property.** I apologize if I’ve upset people, but I believe in saying it like it is. The radio call said ‘Stand down, stand down, retreat.'” In other words, giving space to those who want to destroy. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/251 "2015-04-30T17:43:17Z")
Here’s an article that places riots in an American historical context: [Rioting: An American Tradition](http://werehistory.org/riots/) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/252 "2015-04-30T17:54:56Z")
What would be the compelling reason for keeping the investigators report into Freddie Gray’s death a secret? > **[Baltimore residents disappointed Gray report kept secret](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/30/freddie-grey-report-not-for-public/26631635/)** > > Many residents expected to learn details of Freddie Gray's death on Friday. Seems like this type of stuff should be done with more transparency. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/253 "2015-04-30T17:57:55Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Here’s an article that places riots in an American historical context: [Rioting: An American Tradition](http://werehistory.org/riots/) _The people who are burning Baltimore are not thugs. They are Americans, acting in a grand American political tradition. Calling them thugs and demanding non-violence prejudges them as those who are out of step with modern America. It says that, like the New York City Draft Rioters or the segregationists at Ole Miss, the wrongs they are protesting are in their own heads. That the city of Baltimore has paid damages to more than 100 victims of police brutality in the past three years, and that Freddie Gray’s spine was mysteriously severed and his larynx crushed in police custody, makes it seem unlikely that today’s protesters are imagining injustice._ The people who recently burned Baltimore ARE thugs. It’s a generic term. _Thug - noun › a man who acts violently, esp. a criminal: Some thugs smashed his windows._ Has the official autopsy been released yet? Has the official police report been released to the public yet? It has been reported (suggested?) that the PD turned over it’s preliminary report to the State Attorney’s office, yesterday. When will the SA make the report public? Will it be first provided to the grand jury or a petite jury? The media outlets keep repeating every rumor that they can, and then talk about how confusing the situation has become. Maybe, just maybe, the media outlets could actually vet a story before they rush to publish it. Maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![esmeralda2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ccd318/32.png) [@esmeralda2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esmeralda2)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/254 "2015-04-30T17:59:48Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > Several folks I know who were there said that the media got it wrong, and that the violent incidents were isolated. I think this is very likely. The media emphasizes the most dramatic events; that’s how they get people to watch. The violence and looting may be far more limited than we think based on what we see on television. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/255 "2015-04-30T18:00:43Z")
Hey, if you’re going to be a looter, be a white looter with lots of well-armed buddies, like Cliven Bundy. I’m much more interested in seeing Bundy brought to justice than the Baltimore rioters. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/256 "2015-04-30T18:03:30Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What would be the compelling reason for keeping the investigators report into Freddie Gray’s death a secret? > > [Baltimore residents disappointed Gray report kept secret](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/30/freddie-grey-report-not-for-public/26631635/) > > Seems like this type of stuff should be done with more transparency. There will be a pending grand jury, or the SA could file charges on her own. The defendants have rights. That’s just the way it (the court system) works. Then there could be a petite trial. Releasing the report early could affect how witnesses may testify, or even encourage non-witnesses to claim they are witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/257 "2015-04-30T18:30:17Z")
My take was that these ‘riots’ were just an upjumped Flash Mob. Opportunists laughing and having a good time. Hardly ‘poor children who have no other political recourse or opportunities’ Especially in a city with the political demographics of Baltimore. As for police-civilian relationships, yes, I agree…they’re horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/258 "2015-04-30T19:46:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If you seriously think that literally gagging someone is not infringing on his freedom of speech, there isn’t much to discuss. It doesn’t undermine the actual freedom. You still have a right to property, even if someone else steals it. You still have the right to life, even if someone kills you. You’re using one word in two different ways, swapping them out halfway through your argument. This is extremely bad debate technique. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/259 "2015-04-30T19:52:27Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What would be the compelling reason for keeping the investigators report into Freddie Gray’s death a secret? > > [Baltimore residents disappointed Gray report kept secret](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/04/30/freddie-grey-report-not-for-public/26631635/) > > Seems like this type of stuff should be done with more transparency. From your link: “We know a man named Freddie Gray is dead but we don’t know what happened in that paddywagon,” Brown said, referring to the police van used to transport Gray and another man. Is that a commonly used term for a police car in the States? Won’t Freddie Grays family have access to the autopsy report? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677/260 "2015-04-30T20:02:20Z")
Offered without comment - > [@](#): > > Sources told a Baltimore television station that the medical examiner found Freddie Gray died as a result of slamming his head against the inside of a police van, breaking his neck, Reuters reported Thursday. > > The local ABC affiliate reported sources said the medical examiner’s report, contained in the police report handed over Thursday to the state attorney, found Gray’s wound was consistent with the bolt inside the back of the police van. > … > Batts comments came hours after a Washington Post report claiming Gray may have intentionally tried to injure himself while in the police wagon. The Post cited an unidentified prisoner, who was also in the wagon but was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him. The prisoner reportedly said he heard Gray “banging himself against the walls” and believed he “was intentionally trying to injure himself.” [Cite](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/baltimore-police-hand-results-freddie-gray-probe-over-to-state-offer-few/). Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-baltimore/718677.md?page=14)