# WTF? Big Bang and Evolution are TWO DIFFERENT THEORIES!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452 "2003-02-03T06:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/21 "2003-02-03T23:15:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CRorex \* > Evolution doesn’t mean change over time. It’s a change over time in which there are increases complexity or fitness or further development. No, that really isn’t correct. Are you saying that evolution somehow fights entropy? In truth, evolution is simply adaptation [change] to better survive and reproduce, and doesn’t involve any qualitative drive toward greater complexity. Although any measure of complexity would be highly subjective, there are many adaptations that don’t follow a path toward larger, faster, smarter critters. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/22 "2003-02-04T00:23:11Z")
heh, i wasn’t there, what do i know? i believe in a creator who may (or may not) have chosen to create the universe through the big bang and evolution. the big bang does, after all, allow for a moment of creation, such as “let there be light, and there was light”. and man is seen as the pinnacle of evolution, with a whole lotta fossils and stuff to back it up. so… all in all, i’m never going to be 100% sure of anything, but i’m happy with my 99.999% certainty in the whole big bang/evolution thing. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/23 "2003-02-04T00:39:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CRorex \* > This is assuming that gasses have a higher complexity than solid state objects. \*\* Um… No… Whaddaya mean by “complex?” A big swirl of gas is highly “complicated” – disordered, hard to describe, etc. But most of it is random. Most solids are fairly orderly, and thus contain more “information” and are thus more “complex” in that sense. It’s a word that has different meanings… Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/24 "2003-02-04T01:13:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Whenever this is said to me (not often these days, because I refuse talk to my born-again family members about this subject) the people in question mean chimpanzees. I know and you know that chimpanzees aren’t even monkeys, but the all seem to think the evolutionist believe it went from gibbons, to gorillas, to chimpanzees to human. Or some equally silly line of ascent. Well, we all know that Gibbons had direct involvement in the Decline and Fall of Rome, right? ::: ducks and runs ::: Seriously, I maintain a definite objection to the humans are evolved from apelike ancestors paradigm, on this basis: it appears that both humans and apes had a common ancestor, which was a generalized, open-forest-and-adjacent-plains-living (relatively) large primate. But it’s the **apes** that have specialized for forest life; humans retain “generalized” characteristics to a far greater degree than apes. Therefore, in my view, the “great apes” evolved from primitive “men” (hominoids, to be more accurate). ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/25 "2003-02-04T02:20:32Z")
Even the Pope doesn’t have a problem with evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/26 "2003-02-04T02:22:02Z")
[http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Dossier/0102-97/Article3.html](http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Dossier/0102-97/Article3.html) ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/27 "2003-02-04T03:37:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CRorex \* > \*\*Ok, look INANIMATE OBJECTS CAN"T EVOLVE! There is no survival pressure on a freaking rock! The rock either exists or does not exist. It cannot pass on genetic material to it’s baby rocks so subsequent generations can benifit from any/all mutations that occured during the rock’s life. > > IF rocks suddenly start growing and reproducing offspring that are in turn able to reproduce THEN they can evolve all they damn well want! \*\* Apparently, you seem to think that evolution is only applicable to living things. I don’t know why you think that. The Big Bang is an evolutionary theory of the universe. Even I know that. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/28 "2003-02-04T08:19:21Z")
Of course, we must recognize that there is a difference between _Evolution_ and _evolution_. Similarly, there are _Democrat_ and _democrat_, _Communist_ and _communist_, and _God_ and_god_. Just make sure you capitalize it right. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/29 "2003-02-04T11:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Therefore, in my view, the “great apes” evolved from primitive “men” (hominoids, to be more accurate). \*\* A planet… where apes… evolved from man? You did it! You finally did it! Damn you! Damn you all to hell! ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/30 "2003-02-04T12:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*A planet… where apes… evolved from man? > > You did it! You finally did it! Damn you! Damn you all to hell! \*\* Eh, at least there are half naked beautiful chicks still in the future;) ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/31 "2003-02-04T12:38:22Z")
Nitpick: “You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!” Is what Heston actually says. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/32 "2003-02-04T16:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Deathstatic \* > \*\*So I understand why it is brought up… what? No creator? Nobody gives a shit about me!!! Who can I push my problems onto now? \*\* I think you’ve hit it on the head. Look – cosmology is a pretty fucking amazing concept. So is evolution. To live in a universe where both are true is pretty exciting. IMO far more fascinating than belief in some diety. But it’s humbling. It makes me unloved. It makes me unspecial. Some people find this extremely disconcerting. One of the battle cries of creationists is “I was never a monkey!” As if evolution is a personal affront. Ever hear of a religion where its adherants were not the “Chosen People?” IM(v)HO, creationists are not so much moved by truth as they are by emotional neediness. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/33 "2003-02-04T16:19:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*No, that really isn’t correct. Are you saying that evolution somehow fights entropy? > > In truth, evolution is simply adaptation [change] to better survive and reproduce, and doesn’t involve any qualitative drive toward greater complexity. Although any measure of complexity would be highly subjective, there are many adaptations that don’t follow a path toward larger, faster, smarter critters. \*\* Biologically all life and all functions of life fight entropy. As for evolution leads to greater complexity… The problem is in the short term you really can’t determine that. But in the long term that is correct. Since we apparently went from some sort of self replicating amino acid thingies to what we see in the world now. That is a definate shift in complexity. As for The Big Bang Theory being a theory of evolution for the universe. The Big Bang Theory explains two things: Why objects in space move away from us with a speed proportional to their distance and something about all of the background radiation in the universe. I suppose it also explains where the matter that forms the universe comes from. Lifted from a lecture on A Brief History of Time – A dictonary definion of the hot big bang “the entire physical universe, all the matter and energy and even the four dimensions of time and space, burst forth from a state of infinite or near infinite density, temperature, and pressure” If that definition is accurate, it simply explains why there is velocity associated with objects in space and background radiation. OTHER theories explain the generation of stars, planets and other celestial bodies. Basically what I’m trying to get at is the Big Bang Theory explains how everything started. Which is the opposite of the Theory of Evolution, which doesn’t explain how life started, but explains how we went from the fossil record to what we consider life now. Arrrg this thread made me look up my physics notes! ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/34 "2003-02-04T16:52:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*I think you’ve hit it on the head. > > Look – cosmology is a pretty fucking amazing concept. So is evolution. To live in a universe where both are true is pretty exciting. IMO far more fascinating than belief in some diety. \*\* You make it sound as though evolution/big bang nullifies the possibility for a creator. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/35 "2003-02-04T17:07:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CRorex \* > \*\* > > Basically what I’m trying to get at is the Big Bang Theory explains how everything started. > > \*\* No. It explains how the universe evolved _after_ everything started. The symmetry breaking of the forces, the phase transistions, the creation of particles, the formation and evolution of galaxies and stars, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/36 "2003-02-04T17:08:47Z")
CRorex, Entropy applies to a closed system. It is also a thermodynamic, not a biological term. You are making a subjective assessment that life today is more complex, and then stating that this somehow defies the 2nd law of thermodynamics. How do you measure complexity? If I gave you a puppy and a kitten, how would you decide which was more complex? It’s not a useful term in biology. Simply because life in it’s present form has had millennia to adapt and select for desirable traits, does not make the end result somehow more complex. It’s evidence of a long, relatively stable period where life was allowed to thrive, nothing more. And don’t forget to include the Sun in your system when assessing entropy. It’s still not a perfectly closed system, but you will see that cells aren’t assembling themselves together without a large cost in energy. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/37 "2003-02-04T17:28:55Z")
**Waverly** is quite right. The theory of evolution does not concern itself with complexity, but adaptability. In fact, we know of many species who’s complexity has been reduced during the course of evolution. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/38 "2003-02-04T18:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*You make it sound as though evolution/big bang nullifies the possibility for a creator. \*\* Not at all. But I’ve seen countless creationists who see it as either/or. And they take the possibility of evolution/BB as a personal threat. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/39 "2003-02-04T18:47:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*Not at all. But I’ve seen countless creationists who see it as either/or. And they take the possibility of evolution/BB as a personal threat. \*\* I see what you mean. I would say that literal creationists tend to see it this way. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452/40 "2003-02-04T18:47:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*Eh, at least there are half naked beautiful chicks still in the future;) \*\* And the best part is, they CAN’T TALK.😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-big-bang-and-evolution-are-two-different-theories/152452.md?page=3)