No, that really isn’t correct. Are you saying that evolution somehow fights entropy?
In truth, evolution is simply adaptation [change] to better survive and reproduce, and doesn’t involve any qualitative drive toward greater complexity. Although any measure of complexity would be highly subjective, there are many adaptations that don’t follow a path toward larger, faster, smarter critters.
heh, i wasn’t there, what do i know?
i believe in a creator who may (or may not) have chosen to create the universe through the big bang and evolution.
the big bang does, after all, allow for a moment of creation, such as “let there be light, and there was light”.
and man is seen as the pinnacle of evolution, with a whole lotta fossils and stuff to back it up.
so…
all in all, i’m never going to be 100% sure of anything, but i’m happy with my 99.999% certainty in the whole big bang/evolution thing.
Um… No…
Whaddaya mean by “complex?” A big swirl of gas is highly “complicated” – disordered, hard to describe, etc. But most of it is random. Most solids are fairly orderly, and thus contain more “information” and are thus more “complex” in that sense.
It’s a word that has different meanings…
Trinopus
Well, we all know that Gibbons had direct involvement in the Decline and Fall of Rome, right?
::: ducks and runs :::
Seriously, I maintain a definite objection to the humans are evolved from apelike ancestors paradigm, on this basis: it appears that both humans and apes had a common ancestor, which was a generalized, open-forest-and-adjacent-plains-living (relatively) large primate. But it’s the apes that have specialized for forest life; humans retain “generalized” characteristics to a far greater degree than apes. Therefore, in my view, the “great apes” evolved from primitive “men” (hominoids, to be more accurate).
Even the Pope doesn’t have a problem with evolution.
Apparently, you seem to think that evolution is only applicable to living things.
I don’t know why you think that.
The Big Bang is an evolutionary theory of the universe. Even I know that.
Of course, we must recognize that there is a difference between Evolution and evolution.
Similarly, there are Democrat and democrat, Communist and communist, and God andgod.
Just make sure you capitalize it right.
A planet… where apes… evolved from man?
You did it! You finally did it! Damn you! Damn you all to hell!
Eh, at least there are half naked beautiful chicks still in the future;)
Nitpick:
“You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!”
Is what Heston actually says.
I think you’ve hit it on the head.
Look – cosmology is a pretty fucking amazing concept. So is evolution. To live in a universe where both are true is pretty exciting. IMO far more fascinating than belief in some diety.
But it’s humbling. It makes me unloved. It makes me unspecial. Some people find this extremely disconcerting.
One of the battle cries of creationists is “I was never a monkey!” As if evolution is a personal affront. Ever hear of a religion where its adherants were not the “Chosen People?”
IM(v)HO, creationists are not so much moved by truth as they are by emotional neediness.
Biologically all life and all functions of life fight entropy.
As for evolution leads to greater complexity… The problem is in the short term you really can’t determine that. But in the long term that is correct. Since we apparently went from some sort of self replicating amino acid thingies to what we see in the world now. That is a definate shift in complexity.
As for The Big Bang Theory being a theory of evolution for the universe.
The Big Bang Theory explains two things: Why objects in space move away from us with a speed proportional to their distance and something about all of the background radiation in the universe. I suppose it also explains where the matter that forms the universe comes from.
Lifted from a lecture on A Brief History of Time – A dictonary definion of the hot big bang “the entire physical universe, all the matter and energy and even the four dimensions of time and space, burst forth from a state of infinite or near infinite density, temperature, and pressure”
If that definition is accurate, it simply explains why there is velocity associated with objects in space and background radiation.
OTHER theories explain the generation of stars, planets and other celestial bodies.
Basically what I’m trying to get at is the Big Bang Theory explains how everything started. Which is the opposite of the Theory of Evolution, which doesn’t explain how life started, but explains how we went from the fossil record to what we consider life now.
Arrrg this thread made me look up my physics notes!
You make it sound as though evolution/big bang nullifies the possibility for a creator.
No. It explains how the universe evolved after everything started.
The symmetry breaking of the forces, the phase transistions, the creation of particles, the formation and evolution of galaxies and stars, and so on.
CRorex,
Entropy applies to a closed system. It is also a thermodynamic, not a biological term. You are making a subjective assessment that life today is more complex, and then stating that this somehow defies the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
How do you measure complexity? If I gave you a puppy and a kitten, how would you decide which was more complex? It’s not a useful term in biology. Simply because life in it’s present form has had millennia to adapt and select for desirable traits, does not make the end result somehow more complex. It’s evidence of a long, relatively stable period where life was allowed to thrive, nothing more.
And don’t forget to include the Sun in your system when assessing entropy. It’s still not a perfectly closed system, but you will see that cells aren’t assembling themselves together without a large cost in energy.
Waverly is quite right. The theory of evolution does not concern itself with complexity, but adaptability.
In fact, we know of many species who’s complexity has been reduced during the course of evolution.
Not at all. But I’ve seen countless creationists who see it as either/or. And they take the possibility of evolution/BB as a personal threat.
I see what you mean. I would say that literal creationists tend to see it this way.
And the best part is, they CAN’T TALK.