# Wtf Cheney/lieberman!?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671 "2006-08-14T14:53:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/1 "2006-08-14T14:53:34Z")
Cheney: “The al Queda types are betting on the proposition that ultimately they can break the will of the American people in terms of our ability to stay in the fight and complete the task. And when they see the Democratic Party reject one of its own, a man they selected to be their vice presidential nominee just a few short years ago, it would seem to say a lot about the state the party is in today.” Lieberman: “If we just pick up like Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England. It will strengthen them, and they will strike again.” Does Cheney/Lieberman really expect us to buy into this bullsh\*t again? BTW, what is the “task” that Cheney is talking about? Has Cheney been pitted too many times for this to even matter anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/2 "2006-08-14T15:03:35Z")
The good news is that Ned Lamont is not one of those pink tutu-wearing Democrats who rolls over and takes this crap without fighting back. Lamont should mention Lieberman and Cheney togehter in every apparance between now and November. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060813/ap\_on\_el\_se/lamont\_3](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060813/ap_on_el_se/lamont_3) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/3 "2006-08-14T15:07:05Z")
[Ted Kennedy](http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/commentary/hc-commentarykennedy0813.artaug13,0,5926112.story) has it nailed: > [@](#): > > Cheney and his crowd are all for free and open elections - as long as they turn out their way. They are all for free speech - provided it supports the administration. They are all for the rule of law - as long as the law does not prevent them from doing whatever they want to do. When elections, speeches or laws are inconvenient, he does not hesitate to declare that they are helping the terrorists. I can think of no graver offense against our democracy. Cheney is a thug. He is afraid that if the Republicans get voted out, then his cronies won’t be be able to gut the treasury the way they currently do. If he can scare people to vote for his minions and keep the gravy train going for his buddies, then that’s exactly what he’ll do. Lieberman is a turncoat and no longer relevant. He’s just unable to accept that the voters have every right to show him the door because of his policies. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/4 "2006-08-14T15:36:13Z")
> [@col\_10022](#): > > BTW, what is the “task” that Cheney is talking about? The task would be the task of building a stable, democratic government in Iraq. This isn’t new…it’s the same argument the administration has been using since the debate over whether to pull out of Iraq started…that setting a firm date to pull out of Iraq will just embolden the Iraqi insurgents, because they’ll know that if they can just hold out until that date, Iraq will be helpless and they can take it over. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/5 "2006-08-14T15:39:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Cheney is a thug. **He is afraid that if the Republicans get voted out, then his cronies won’t be be able to gut the treasury the way they currently do.** If he can scare people to vote for his minions and keep the gravy train going for his buddies, then that’s exactly what he’ll do. Lieberman is a turncoat and no longer relevant. He’s just unable to accept that the voters have every right to show him the door because of his policies. (Bolding mine.) I have a sneaking suspicion it goes beyond that. He may have heard that the cardiac-care facilities at the Greybar Hotel aren’t up to the standards he’s come to expect at whatever “undisclosed location” he’s inhabiting now. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/6 "2006-08-14T16:12:50Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > I have a sneaking suspicion it goes beyond that. Yes, I hear tell that the vice president is just plain old rattlesnake _mean_! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/7 "2006-08-14T16:34:06Z")
I’m afraid both Lieberman and Cheney are perfectly right in their assessment. We pick up and leave now, we leave a giant vacuum that al-Qaeda will fill to the brim with terrorist training camps. Yes, we created the problem. I know that. We broke it. We bought it. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/8 "2006-08-14T16:43:06Z")
> [@col\_10022](#): > > Does Cheney/Lieberman really expect us to buy into this bullsh\*t again? Oh sure. Hell, it’s not like Cheney’s assorted bullshit pronouncements haven’t proven effective before. Or Rice’s. Or Rumsfeld’s. Difference being that people are starting to notice the leaps of faith that they are required to make, looking into the chasm that they are expected to leap over, and saying, “Fuck **that**.” Here’s to hoping that said people continue to look objectively at the twaddle that issues forth from the latest Bush admin. > [@Captain Amazing](#): > > The task would be the task of building a stable, democratic government in Iraq. This isn’t new…it’s the same argument the administration has been using since the debate over whether to pull out of Iraq started…that setting a firm date to pull out of Iraq will just embolden the Iraqi insurgents, because they’ll know that if they can just hold out until that date, Iraq will be helpless and they can take it over. Which in turn was at least the second task that the US was charged with. After, natch, WMDs and the attendant smoking gun being a mushroom cloud. Honestly, I would dearly love to see a stable, democratic government in Iraq. But I would be a helluva lot happier if the US could get basic services (electricity, water, making the schlep to the damned airport) back up to levels that actually exceed those that existed under Hussein. Seems to me that more hearts and minds would be won over by doing **that** than installing the latest, greatest leader according to the Bush _fils_ administration. > [@Squink](#): > > Yes, I hear tell that the vice president is just plain old rattlesnake _mean_! 😉 Well sure, but Barbara Bush can still school his sorry white ass. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/9 "2006-08-14T16:51:54Z")
**col**! Glad to see you signed up! Sorry, I have nothing to contribute to this discussion… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/10 "2006-08-14T17:03:43Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I’m afraid both Lieberman and Cheney are perfectly right in their assessment. We pick up and leave now, we leave a giant vacuum that al-Qaeda will fill to the brim with terrorist training camps. > > Yes, we created the problem. I know that. We broke it. We bought it. And the solution is to keep stuffing that vacuum with American and Iraqi bodies. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/11 "2006-08-14T17:06:11Z")
Oh, thank God! I thought the OP had discovered the worst slash ever. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/12 "2006-08-14T17:08:57Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > And the solution is to keep stuffing that vacuum with American and Iraqi bodies. > > -Joe Well, sir, what do you propose? Pull out and pretend the whole thing never happened? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/13 "2006-08-14T17:10:22Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Yes, we created the problem. I know that. We broke it. We bought it. True to a point, but how many lives are the US obligated to sacrifice because they broke it? Is the goal of an Iraqi democracy worth 100,000 dead bodies? If not, then perhaps it’s time to cut the losses. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/14 "2006-08-14T17:12:12Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > We pick up and leave now, we leave a giant vacuum that al-Qaeda will fill to the brim with terrorist training camps. Whereas if we don’t leave, the same thing will happen. And the terrorists will have a much more accessible set of targets to hit (our troops). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/15 "2006-08-14T17:16:01Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I’m afraid both Lieberman and Cheney are perfectly right in their assessment. We pick up and leave now, we leave a giant vacuum that al-Qaeda will fill to the brim with terrorist training camps. > > Yes, we created the problem. I know that. We broke it. We bought it. We’re breaking it further. When you have a bull in a china shop, you don’t keep the bull there until he starts to mend the dishes. You get it the hell out. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/16 "2006-08-14T17:17:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Whereas if we don’t leave, the same thing will happen. And the terrorists will have a much more accessible set of targets to hit (our troops). Our troops hit back. The innocent people that will die in the next major terrorist attack can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/17 "2006-08-14T17:18:15Z")
You can smell the desperation in Lieberman and he needs to stop embarrasing himself. He lost his parties primary, it happens. Like BobLibDem said, I don’t know what he hopes to gain by this selfish attempt to stay relevant. He just comes off as whiny and malicious. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/18 "2006-08-14T17:20:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > We’re breaking it further. When you have a bull in a china shop, you don’t keep the bull there until he starts to mend the dishes. You get it the hell out. Huh? I’m not sure it could be broken any further, except if we were to suddenly pull out and leave eveything to totally collapse into sectarian violence without even the PRETEXT of a unified government. It’s not quite Somalia in Iraq now, but it would be within 6 months of our leaving. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/19 "2006-08-14T17:24:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > True to a point, but how many lives are the US obligated to sacrifice because they broke it? Is the goal of an Iraqi democracy worth 100,000 dead bodies? If not, then perhaps it’s time to cut the losses. Oh, it’s far more than that, because when we leave, the breakdown of all civil order, famine, sectarian violence, ethnic pogroms, and inevitable civil war will probably kill another couple of million, I’m guessing. And even with us safely ensconced and walled-in on the other side of the Atlantic, every one of those deaths will be laid at our door as well. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/20 "2006-08-14T17:28:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [Ted Kennedy](http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/commentary/hc-commentarykennedy0813.artaug13,0,5926112.story) has it nailed: That’s a great quote! > [@](#): > > Cheney is a thug. He is afraid that if the Republicans get voted out, then his cronies won’t be be able to gut the treasury the way they currently do. If he can scare people to vote for his minions and keep the gravy train going for his buddies, then that’s exactly what he’ll do. Lieberman is a turncoat and no longer relevant. He’s just unable to accept that the voters have every right to show him the door because of his policies. I was never much in favor of term limits, but maybe I should change my mind. Lieberman clearly thinks he has a right to his seat, no matter what the voters in his party might think. I have another peeve around this - the news media bringing up those who voted to give Bush authority for the war (but not for the war itself.) I’ve not noticed any backlash against them, since most of them have looked at the facts and admitted they made a mistake and that voting then doesn’t require supporting it now. Lieberman got dumped for refusing to face the facts today, not three years ago. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671.md?page=2)