# Wtf Cheney/lieberman!?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671 "2006-08-14T14:53:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/21 "2006-08-14T17:34:12Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Our troops hit back. The innocent people that will die in the next major terrorist attack can’t. That’s right, the recent terrorist attack was planned in Iraq. Oops. Don’t be stupid. What will be more effective in preventing terrorist attacks - throwing money down a rathole in Iraq, or using some of the money to beef up Homeland Security and patch all the holes we can’t afford to patch today, and use some of the troops and new clout in going after the terrorist hq in Afgahanistan. Remember Osama? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/22 "2006-08-14T17:39:22Z")
**Voyager** , **Ogre** isn’t just talking about Americans. He’s talking about people. That includes Iraqis. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/23 "2006-08-14T17:39:27Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Oh, it’s far more than that, because when we leave, the breakdown of all civil order, famine, sectarian violence, ethnic pogroms, and inevitable civil war will probably kill another couple of million, I’m guessing. And even with us safely ensconced and walled-in on the other side of the Atlantic, every one of those deaths will be laid at our door as well. So, to prevent this we stay there forever? Do you think things are moving in the right direction? We might be able to turn things around if we sent Bush, Cheney, Rummy and their contingent of clowns off to Gitmo and put someone in charge with their head out of their ass, but as it stands we’ve got 2 1/2 more years of these idiots, and no reason to think things will get better. We’ve got Captain Wrong-way Peachfuzz running our ship, and since he’s locked in the bridge, we’d better get off before we hit an iceberg. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/24 "2006-08-14T17:41:58Z")
Since we aren’t going to get rid of these assholes until January 2009, I don’t see any choice but to try to keep the lid on until then and then have the next president, who hopefully will actually have some credibility, try to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/25 "2006-08-14T17:55:32Z")
[The political debate has sunk to a new low.](http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20060810-084244-8757r.htm) Not that I ever accused Cal Thomas of being smart, but this is low even for him. > [@](#): > > The narrow primary defeat of veteran Sen. Joe Lieberman in Connecticut’s Democratic primary is more than a loss for one man. It is a loss for his party and for the country. It completes the capture of the Democratic Party by its Taliban wing. “Taliban Democrats”. This might be the slimiest editorial ever written. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/26 "2006-08-14T18:18:23Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > **Voyager** , **Ogre** isn’t just talking about Americans. He’s talking about people. That includes Iraqis. Then he’s slapping the label of terrorist on anyone he doesn’t like. There is a civil war there. There are militias on the side of the government killing people, there are insurgents against the government killing people, there are militias in the government coalition killing people. They’re just as dead, but terrorism isn’t the problem. Here’s a suggestion. The one thing we actually pulled off there was having a reasonably free and fair election. (Considering the circumstance we did a damn good job - I have to give that to the Administration.) Have one and ask the Iraqis if they want us to leave. If they do, set up a timetable and split. We’re in favor of democracy, right? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/27 "2006-08-14T18:20:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [The political debate has sunk to a new low.](http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20060810-084244-8757r.htm) > > Not that I ever accused Cal Thomas of being smart, but this is low even for him. > > “Taliban Democrats”. This might be the slimiest editorial ever written. If Cal like him, the voters of Conn. did a good job. The Pubbies should make Joe their candidate, and make an honest man out of him. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/28 "2006-08-14T18:22:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Then he’s slapping the label of terrorist on anyone he doesn’t like. There is a civil war there. There are militias on the side of the government killing people, there are insurgents against the government killing people, there are militias in the government coalition killing people. They’re just as dead, but terrorism isn’t the problem. > > Here’s a suggestion. The one thing we actually pulled off there was having a reasonably free and fair election. (Considering the circumstance we did a damn good job - I have to give that to the Administration.) Have one and ask the Iraqis if they want us to leave. If they do, set up a timetable and split. We’re in favor of democracy, right? Actually, that would work for me, if we really felt we could ensure a valid election. That is, if the insurgents (and I agree that **Ogre** ’s choice of term there was bad, but that came from the administration and has percolated down, just as somehow overnight Kerry became a Flip-Flopper) don’t prevent the ordinary citizens from voting. And that might be quite difficult, but you’re right - the election on the whole went quite well. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/29 "2006-08-14T18:35:13Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > Well sure, but Barbara Bush can still school his sorry white ass. Raise hands: who here would pay to see Barbara Bush go up against Dick Cheney in a no-holds bar steel cage match? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/30 "2006-08-14T18:55:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The Pubbies should make Joe their candidate, and make an honest man out of him. You’ve reminded me of that optical illusion where you take a shade of grey and put it on a white field and it looks dark, and then put it on a black field and it looks light. I’m voting Republican in 2008. No way should any other party have to clean up this mess. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/31 "2006-08-14T18:55:32Z")
Sure, as long as you suspend the cage over an active volcano, and cut the cables when the victor’s declared. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/32 "2006-08-14T18:57:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Raise hands: who here would pay to see Barbara Bush go up against Dick Cheney in a no-holds bar steel cage match? I might pay some to ensure that it happened, but watching it? No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/33 "2006-08-14T19:29:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Raise hands: who here would pay to see Barbara Bush go up against Dick Cheney in a no-holds bar steel cage match? 20 on Babs. as long as Dick’s unarmed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/34 "2006-08-14T19:33:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > “Taliban Democrats”. This might be the slimiest editorial ever written. I saw another one called “Liberal McCarthyism.” There is no comparison too ridiculous for these Hyperbolical Conservatives. 😉 I wonder if Cheney’s intervention will help sink Lieberman. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/35 "2006-08-14T19:40:23Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > The task would be the task of building a stable, democratic government in Iraq. This isn’t new…it’s the same argument the administration has been using since the debate over whether to pull out of Iraq started…that setting a firm date to pull out of Iraq will just embolden the Iraqi insurgents, because they’ll know that if they can just hold out until that date, Iraq will be helpless and they can take it over. So what do we think are the indicia of “a stable, democratic government in Iraq”? Do we have to get to the point where there is no more sectarian violence in Iraq? If our presence is the only thing standing between civil war and the current situation, are we hoping that the Sunnis, Baathists, Kurds, and Shia will somehow come to terms with each other and live happily ever after so long as we are there to prevent outright civil war? Is there a roadmap or are we at the point where we are just “hoping”? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/36 "2006-08-14T19:46:19Z")
Until there’s a new administration, we’re just hoping, I think. But what’s the alternative? Pull out and let the entire former Iraq go up in flames? Because we blindly and stupidly created a mess we had no idea how to clean up? The Iraqis don’t deserve what’s happened to them already. But what’s already happened to them is nothing compare to what will likely happen if we just say “Oops! My Bad! See ya around!” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/37 "2006-08-14T19:48:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > True to a point, but how many lives are the US obligated to sacrifice because they broke it? “Everyone who voted for Bush/Cheney in 2000 and 2004”? (Or as my greey little id would say, “_They_ broke it, _they_ pay for it.”) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/38 "2006-08-14T19:53:16Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > The Iraqis don’t deserve what’s happened to them already. But what’s already happened to them is nothing compare to what will likely happen if we just say “Oops! My Bad! See ya around!” How acurate were your pre-invasion predictions? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/39 "2006-08-14T19:56:02Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > It’s not quite Somalia in Iraq now, but it would be within 6 months of our leaving. And that will be true whether we leave now, or in 10 years after a Republican President declares “mission accomplished” and brings the boys home. Doing it now will save the lives of thousands of American troops. The victims of sectarian violence are doomed either way. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671/40 "2006-08-14T20:07:16Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > And that will be true whether we leave now, or in 10 years after a Republican President declares “mission accomplished” and brings the boys home. Doing it now will save the lives of thousands of American troops. The victims of sectarian violence are doomed either way. But obviously, Cheney doesn’t believe that, and neither does Lieberman.They both believe it’s possible to end the sectarian violence with US involvement. Obviously, you disagree, but what they’re saying makes sense, given the premises they’re starting with, just as what you’re saying makes sense given the premises you’re starting with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-cheney-lieberman/368671.md?page=3)