# WTF, Egypt? W...T...F?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158 "2012-04-27T17:53:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/81 "2012-04-28T17:42:51Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > People certainly should have questioned the story more, but it wasn’t the shitty, anti-Muslim western media, but Al-Ahram and Al-Aribiya, which aren’t western or anti-Muslim. Well, they started it, but that doesn’t absolve the western media of their responsibility to look at the story critically, or to find out if there was any actual meat to the assertion. After all, the original [El-Arabiya story](http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/25/210198.html) was pretty fucking light on details, and was full of the same sort of vague, weaselly language that characterized so many Western reports: > [@](#): > > The appeal came in a message sent by Dr. Mervat al-Talawi, head of the NCW, to the Egyptian People’s Assembly Speaker, Dr. Saad al-Katatni, addressing the woes of Egyptian women, especially after the popular uprising that toppled president Hosni Mubarak in February 2011. > > She was referring to two laws: one that would legalize the marriage of girls starting from the age of 14 and the other that permits a husband to have sex with his dead wife within the six hours following her death. Nowhere is the text of these alleged two laws given, nor are we told where the laws currently stand in the legislative process, who proposed them, or what actual Egyptian politicians have to say about them. > [@](#): > > The controversy about a husband having sex with his dead wife came about after a Moroccan cleric spoke about the issue in May 2011. > > Zamzami Abdul Bari said that marriage remains valid even after death adding that a woman also too had the same right to engage in sex with her dead husband. > > Two years ago, Zamzami incited further controversy in Morocco when he said it was permissible for pregnant women to drink alcohol. > > But it seems his view on partners having sex with their deceased partners has found its way to Egypt one year on. > > Egyptian prominent journalist and TV anchor Jaber al-Qarmouty on Tuesday referred to Abdul Samea’s article in his daily show on Egyptian ON TV and criticized the whole notion of “permitting a husband to have sex with his wife after her death under a so-called ‘Farewell Intercourse’ draft law.” Again, as in the Western media, the only concrete reference is to a single cleric, who by all accounts is something of a troublemaker, and to a “draft law” that, as far as the media is concerned, seems to have no actual author. If journalists at large, internationally-renowned media outlets are going to report on issues like this, they should do some actual fucking legwork and not simply repeat vague and poorly-sourced stories. Their readers, who can be excused for believing these stories when they appear, have a right to expect better. Edit: > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, it took almost 20 minutes and 9 posts for someone to call BS. We should be ashamed of ourselves! Oh, bite my fucking nutsack. You’re usually not as fucking stupid as this. As i’ve made very clear in all my posts, my main concern here is with the media that reported this steaming turd as if it were a verified, well-sourced story. And that goes for all of them, from _El-Arabiya_ to the _Daily Mail_ to the _Huffington Post_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/82 "2012-04-28T17:47:25Z")
I’m wondering, based on no evidence whatsoever, if they\* might have put it out there just to see how far it would get. As a propaganda point in the “The West hates Islam” campaign, this one was a beaut, intentional or no. Did you know that algebra was invented by Muslims? That’s a true fact, you would look it up. Reason enough to wipe them out, way I figure it. Math. Not even once… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/83 "2012-04-28T18:02:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Oh, bite my fucking nutsack. You’re usually not as fucking stupid as this. > > As i’ve made very clear in all my posts, my main concern here is with the media that reported this steaming turd as if it were a verified, well-sourced story. And that goes for all of them, from _El-Arabiya_ to the _Daily Mail_ to the _Huffington Post_. Well bully for you. My main concern is the snippy post by AK84: > [@](#): > > It appears that people in the West don’t have bullshit sensors as far as it relates to anything to do with muslims. He can take his bullshit meter and shove it up has ass for all I care. This story originated in the Muslim press, so maybe he should worry about their bullshit meters first. Ours clicked in pretty damn fast, thank-you-very-much! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/84 "2012-04-28T18:06:33Z")
Like that story about Obama stealing watermelon as a child. Nobody believed that, for a second! Well, maybe a few did. But everybody else knows there’s no watermelon in Kenya! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/85 "2012-04-28T18:10:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He can take his bullshit meter and shove it up has ass for all I care. This story originated in the Muslim press, so maybe he should worry about their bullshit meters first. Ours clicked in pretty damn fast, thank-you-very-much! If by “ours” you mean people here, then i would agree, in part, although there were people on the first page of this thread who were lending credence to the story based not on its actual coherence, but on the fact that lots of media outlets were reporting it. If you mean “our” media, i disagree. Yesterday, the CSM was about the only outlet questioning the story, and even the Daily Mail’s reversal still weaseled by saying that the story had not been rebutted. Well, my claim that America is going to pass a law banning candy has also not yet been rebutted. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/86 "2012-04-28T18:15:06Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If by “ours” you mean people here, then i would agree, in part, although there were people on the first page of this thread who were lending credence to the story based not on its actual coherence, but on the fact that lots of media outlets were reporting it. > > If you mean “our” media, i disagree. Yesterday, the CSM was about the only outlet questioning the story, and even the Daily Mail’s reversal still weaseled by saying that the story had not been rebutted. Well, my claim that America is going to pass a law banning candy has also not yet been rebutted. Blame the internet and the lack of fact checking in general. I don’t know that this has anything to do with the West and muslims in particular. But it does make me wonder… is it illegal to have sex with your wife’s 8 hours dead corpse? Is a law needed to make it legal? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/87 "2012-04-28T19:33:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m wondering, based on no evidence whatsoever, if they\* might have put it out there just to see how far it would get. As a propaganda point in the “The West hates Islam” campaign, this one was a beaut, intentional or no. I doubt it because if they had thought of it for such an exercise, it would have been rejected as too unbelievable. I can assure you if say there was a report that the Texas or Slovakian legislature was doing this, NOBODY would publish before getting even the slightest of confirmation.When I read it, it sounded like what it exactly is…bullshit. I was right and anyone in their right mind would have come to the same conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/88 "2012-04-28T20:04:48Z")
Good for you. Here’s a cookie. In fact, take two. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/89 "2012-04-28T20:27:41Z")
Anyone able to translate this? [عبد الباري الزمزمي و فتوى الحلال المنبوذ - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFWklBaFwc4&feature=player_embedded) See also: [http://www.moroccoboard.com/news/5245-morocco-imam-zamzami-backtracks-on-controversial-fatwa](http://www.moroccoboard.com/news/5245-morocco-imam-zamzami-backtracks-on-controversial-fatwa) and [http://www.moroccoboard.com/viewpoint/124-zouhair-baghough-/5239-freak-show-necrophilia-is-now-halal-in-morocco](http://www.moroccoboard.com/viewpoint/124-zouhair-baghough-/5239-freak-show-necrophilia-is-now-halal-in-morocco) and [http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/egypts-women-urge-mps-not.html](http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/egypts-women-urge-mps-not.html) and [Egypt’s women urge MPs not to pass early marriage, sex-after-death laws: report](http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/25/210198.html) . ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/90 "2012-04-28T20:30:42Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I doubt it because if they had thought of it for such an exercise, it would have been rejected as too unbelievable. [Poe’s Law](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe's_Law) [strikes again.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/91 "2012-04-28T20:53:56Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > [http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/25/210198.html](http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04/25/210198.html) . This is the article that started the whole thing, and that i quoted in post #81. And as i noted, it is almost completely devoid of any concrete detail about any actual bill, law, legislation, political party, formal announcement, source, or anything at all that might support the claim that the Egyptian parliament is actually considering such a law. We learn from the article that the National Council for Women has asked the parliament not to approve laws allowing a man to have sex with his wife’s corpse, but we never learn whether or not the politicians have even discussed this possibility, or how many of them are taking it at all seriously. There is no evidence or detail at all connecting the idea, on the one hand, and the legislative process, on the other. We learn that the issue of having sex with a dead wife emerged over a year ago, when a single cleric, in a completely different country, “spoke about” it. But we learn nothing about what has happened in the year since that happened. Have politicians in Egypt talked about it? Has someone written a bill and placed it before the legislature? Has it been widely discussed in the Egyptian media, or among political commentators? Did the cleric who raised the issue receive support from other clerics, or from political figures within Egypt? We then learn that the cleric’s view “found its way to Egypt one year on,” and that the view was criticized on an Egyptian television news show. We also learn that the news show anchor asked: “Could the panel that will draft the Egyptian constitution possibly discuss such issues?” But again, we aren’t told how the idea “found its way” to Egypt," we’re told nothing about whether anyone except a few cranks is actually talking about this, and we’re given no indication at all that “the panel that will draft the Egyptian constitution” is even considering it. I mean, it’s possible that the panel that will draft the Egyptian constitution will discuss making it constitutional for a mother to feed sand instead of food to her newborn infant, but until someone on the panel actually raises the issue, this sort of “could they…?” question is just bad journalism. We then learn that: > [@](#): > > Many members of the newly-elected, and majority Islamist parliament, have been accused of launching attacks against women’s rights in the country. > > They wish to cancel many, if not most, of the laws that promote women’s rights, most notably a law that allows a wife to obtain a divorce without obstructions from her partner. The implementation of the Islamic right to divorce law, also known as the Khula, ended years of hardship and legal battles women would have to endure when trying to obtain a divorce. These are important issues, and if the parliament is actually curbing women’s rights in Egypt then it’s an important story that needs to be covered. What it doesn’t need is the sort of sensationalizing bullshit that we got with the corpse-fucking angle. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/92 "2012-04-28T20:57:26Z")
One can only wonder what the _Onion’s_ version of this will be. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/93 "2012-04-28T21:09:58Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > One can only wonder what the _Onion’s_ version of this will be. It would be hilarious if they posted a 100% factual account of the story and how it was believed. So meta, man. So meta. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/94 "2012-04-28T21:13:58Z")
I think they need to extend the period during which women can have sex with their dead husbands. Rigor mortis can last up to 48 hours - it’s probably the longest he’s ever lasted. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/95 "2012-04-28T21:17:54Z")
If you think about it, this raises all kinds of philosophical questions. Does a corpse retain a sexual identity? Does it have rights? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/96 "2012-04-28T21:39:20Z")
It widens the scope of adultry too. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/97 "2012-04-28T22:03:44Z")
Exactly. Can you cheat on your corpse wife? If someone else fucks your wife’s corpse, is she cheating on you? Can you then stone her for adultery? Can you get a quickie divorce from your corpse wife, maybe for some kind of tax benefit? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/98 "2012-04-28T23:18:39Z")
> [@](#): > > He also said women have the same right to have sex with their dead husbands. It was soooooo romantic! You just lied back and let me do all the work! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/99 "2012-04-28T23:20:42Z")
Now women can lie back and think of Egypt rather than England. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158/100 "2012-04-28T23:53:44Z")
If she’s dead and been mummified, would that be incest? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-egypt-w-t-f/620158.md?page=6)