# WTF happened to Ebay fees **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 20, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968 "2011-02-20T02:29:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/21 "2011-02-22T16:56:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But what do you base that on? Is that in comparison to what other auction houses cost? Or compared to consignment fees at a second hand store? Maybe the wholesale vs retail cost of goods? Or what? You must have some benchmark you’re measuring against. > > As for monopoly power, it seems to me that there are quite a lot of shopping sites on the internet, including ones that cater to used goods. > > An awful lot of shops on eBay also have their own online shopping sites, and sell their goods at fixed ‘buy it now’ prices - which makes eBay the equivalent of a retail dealer for their products - it’s like putting your goods into Wal-Mart even though you have your own stores - they bring volume. > > If you sell your product wholesale, you’ll typically get somewhere around 50% of the retail price. By that standard, or by Apple’s 30% cut in the iTunes store, 9.8% for eBay sounds pretty reasonable. Lumping in Paypal’s charge isn’t really fair, because it’s an optional payment service. In any event, VISA and Mastercard charge similar amounts for online purchases, so I don’t see any monopoly pricing there. I also don’t think PayPal has anything like a monopoly as an online purchase broker. They’re in direct competition with credit cards, cheques, and money orders. I think that visa/mastercard charges about 3% and give me about 1% so they end up with 2% and they have to spend a LOT more money supporting their services with vendors than paypal does. Paypal is not optional for a very large percentage of ebay auctions. I am comparing ebay charges with what amazon and caraigslist charge. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/22 "2011-02-22T17:36:04Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Now, if you want to talk price gouging and a rate that’s being set so high it threatens the entire delivery model, how about Apple charging 30% for anything sold through the app store? And worse, they’re forcing publishers to sell their subscriptions through the app store. So if you order a Kindle book for $10, Apple wants a $3 cut. And they won’t even let people sell through the App like Kindle does today, and they won’t let the vendors charge higher prices on the iPad. Is this right? How does Apple get a cut of my Kindle books if they’re _not_ sold through the app? When I buy a Kindle book, I pay for it on Amazon, they send it to “Biffy’s Kindle for Mac,” and I can then access it on my Touch and iPad. It’s not like when I make an in-app purchase, such as adding a sound bank to a synthesizer app, where the payment goes though iTunes. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/23 "2011-02-22T17:44:08Z")
ebay was a good thing until it became the haven for retards who fancy themselves as “merchants” and “business owners” by running around on their welfare-funded spare time, hogging all the traditional brick & mortar store deals, and then turning around and selling them on ebay for gross markups (relative to their personal cost). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/24 "2011-02-22T19:03:32Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Is this right? How does Apple get a cut of my Kindle books if they’re _not_ sold through the app? When I buy a Kindle book, I pay for it on Amazon, they send it to “Biffy’s Kindle for Mac,” and I can then access it on my Touch and iPad. It’s not like when I make an in-app purchase, such as adding a sound bank to a synthesizer app, where the payment goes though iTunes. Apple’s being pretty crazy about this. You can read the latest details here: [Apple Wants 30% Cut of All Subscriptions](http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9209580/Apple_s_new_App_Store_rules_affect_Amazon_s_Kindle) Basically, what they’re saying is that Kindle and all other apps that have secondary purchases must remove all links to outside web sites that might sell those subscriptions. Any product that has subscriptions can have an external web site to sell them, but it can’t link to the web site in the app, and the developer must also make the subscription or product available in the App Store. In-App or App Store sales must give Apple their 30% cut. In addition, Apple forbids publishers from setting different prices for iPad subscriptions than for other subscriptions, meaning they can’t even bake Apple’s 30% into the price, but must pay for Apple’s cut out of their own profit, or raise the price for everyone just to support the iPad. Apple’s response to criticism is to point out that they don’t get a cut if you sell the subscription on a web site. But they’re setting up the rules such that the most convenient path for the customer is to buy through Apple or in-app, and they’re setting up the rules so that the customer can’t save money by going outside the iPad. As a result, most people will buy through the iPad and Apple will get its 30%. I think this policy could get Apple into real trouble. I think it opens it up to potential anti-trust (the iPad owns over 90% of the market in tablets), and I also think that Apple runs the real risk of losing some of its premier products like the Zinio magazine reader, the Kindle app, the Marvel Comics app, and various newspapers. They’re giving a unique market edge to the new crop of Android tablets, and that seems just stupid to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/25 "2011-02-22T19:16:06Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think that visa/mastercard charges about 3% and give me about 1% so they end up with 2% and they have to spend a LOT more money supporting their services with vendors than paypal does. > > Paypal is not optional for a very large percentage of ebay auctions. > > I am comparing ebay charges with what amazon and caraigslist charge. Craigslist and Amazon are not reasonable comparisons, though. eBay is unique in how it manages auctions and dealers and all that. Craiglist is just a glorified classified ad. eBay is acting as an auction house, an E-Commerce site, a broker, and as an ISP for hosting stores online. The services they offer go way beyond Craigslist. For small online retailers, eBay is a godsend. A better comparison for eBay would be to look at the fees charged by consignment dealers or other auction houses. Consignment dealers charge different rates based on how much of their resources a product takes to display and sell. Coin dealers typically charge 10% or so, but dealers for larger objects can charge 20% and up. So eBay is right in there with them, and exposes your product to a worldwide audience. As for the Paypal fee, credit cards charge between 1% and 3% in merchant fees, but they also profit from high interest, penalties, and annual card fees. In addition, consumers or merchants are often hit with networking fees. Paypal has none of those revenue streams, so 3.2% doesn’t sound outrageous. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/26 "2011-02-22T20:42:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > A better comparison for eBay would be to look at the fees charged by consignment dealers or other auction houses. Consignment dealers charge different rates based on how much of their resources a product takes to display and sell. Coin dealers typically charge 10% or so, but dealers for larger objects can charge 20% and up. So eBay is right in there with them, and exposes your product to a worldwide audience. I don’t agree. Ebay used to cost SIGNIFICANTLY less, now they want $9 from a $100 sale. The fact that ebay might be competitive with brick and mortar auction houses means NOTHING. I think a credible competitor can come along and eat their lunch or force them to lower their fees. BTW: Am I the only one getting comeons for the paypal credit card? > [@](#): > > As for the Paypal fee, credit cards charge between 1% and 3% in merchant fees, but they also profit from high interest, penalties, and annual card fees. In one sense that makes the fee is even more egregious. they don’t even have to float me for a month. They just collect the fee for taking money I give to them and then giving that money to the vendor. They don’t front me the money. They take NO credit risk. Paypal used to be FREE, they made money on the spread between the interest rate they offered on account balances and what they received on those balances. Now its 3.2% and they STILL make the spread. It would be as if a bank charged you money for someone making an online payment into your bank account on which you earned . \>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\> Listen, they can charge whatever they want and I don’t have to use their site. They are not obligated to provide an auction site at a price that I want to pay. I have also noticed that the price advantage of ebay over amazon is virtually non-existant, perhaps because of the high fees they charge, which kind of dissuades me from goign to the effort of dealing with all teh crap you deal with when you buy on ebay.. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/27 "2011-02-22T21:18:30Z")
Well, that’s fair enough. Ultimately, whether they are over-priced or not will be determined by the market. Just as will Apple’s 30% cut. Apple believes the iPad brings enough value to the app makers that Apple is justified in taking 30%. I think that’s nuts, but the market will decide. To be fair to you, I tried to think of another web site that was somewhat similar. The one I came up with was **etsy** , so I went there and checked their fees. They charge 3.2% of the sale, so at least one of eBay’s competitors is seriously undercutting their fee structure. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/28 "2011-02-22T22:16:17Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Apple believes the iPad brings enough value to the app makers that Apple is justified in taking 30%. I think that’s nuts, but the market will decide. why do you even have to read justification into it. the sentence works just as well if you say “Apple can charge 30% and people will still take them up on their offer” and it has the added bonus of not making an unsubstantiated claim about what Apple feels about the fee. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/29 "2011-02-22T23:10:02Z")
Unjustified? Basically what I said is that Apple is charging it because it thinks that’s what the market will bear. They think that they can get away with charging 30% because ultimately their app makers will decide that it’s worth paying it to be allowed to exist in the Apple ecosystem. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/30 "2011-02-23T03:04:15Z")
Apple has adopted a skimming strategy for years. I still remember buying an iphone for $600 only to have then cut the price by $400 after about 3 months. I swore I’d never buy another apple product again. Then the iphone came out on Verizon. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/31 "2011-02-23T06:31:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > To be fair to you, I tried to think of another web site that was somewhat similar. The one I came up with was **etsy** , so I went there and checked their fees. They charge 3.2% of the sale, so at least one of eBay’s competitors is seriously undercutting their fee structure. How on earth does one find alternatives to ebay? Do you have to stumble on sites by accident, or is there a list of all auction sites somewhere? I ask because until your post, I never heard of etsy. I’ll dig around on it to see what they offer, but before I do, I’m guessing it represents a small subset of what ebay sells. Perhaps I’m wrong. I also didn’t realize that eBay was restricting some upper limits on shipping and Handling charges. Although that’s good for the buyer, that has to be tough on the seller, who can’t cheat ebay out of their fees. I can also state that they haven’t stopped this behavior everywhere yet, because I just looked at something that shouldn’t cost more than 5 bucks to ship, and they are charging $20. The change in fees charged by ebay to their sellers caused the sellers to look for a way to circumvent ebay’s new policy. Which they did, until ebay figured they were getting screwed. I guess both sides will continue to adapt to the other side’s moves until there is no way to adapt. I suspect ebay will ultimately win this challenge. Like someone upthread mentioned, the outrageous shipping charges have reduced my time on ebay significantly. because I got tired of having to check every single item’s shipping fee before bidding. I bid on something that cost $4 to buy, and shipping was $20. That was my fault for not checking, but based on the item I didn’t think I was going to get screwed this badly. Now I HAVE to check on every item, and it sucks. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/32 "2011-02-23T07:50:06Z")
I still see a ton of stuff where the shipping is higher than it actually would have to be. Why would you ever get into the habit of purchasing something without knowing the full price? It’s not like its in any way hidden on eBay. The shipping has been in the actual search results for as long as I can remember, and you can now even sort by “Price + Shipping,” (something I always do with Buy It Now). It’s not like everywhere else where its often hidden in the fine print, or you only see it after you’ve made the decision to purchase (even sometimes requiring your credit card number first). And even those I would expect you to notice. That said, I really don’t understand why eBay doesn’t just use its ability to get actual shipping costs, and just enforce that. I mean, in some auctions, in order to allow you to see the shipping, require you to put in your ZIP code if you haven’t logged in. Why in the world would that not be based on actual shipping charges? You’re doing the calculation anyway, why not automatically check with the courier? Other sites seem to do it, no problem. So just make everyone uses actual shipping or lower, and both problems mentioned upthread go away. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968/33 "2011-02-23T14:16:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That said, I really don’t understand why eBay doesn’t just use its ability to get actual shipping costs, and just enforce that. well the rejoinder would be that the packaging and handling components can’t be derived from the courier’s website. now, whether that is properly part of the shipping & handling fee, or whether it should be rolled up into the item price, is a different issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-happened-to-ebay-fees/571968.md?page=1)