# WTF is "bathroom policing" harassment? (New York ComicCom) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 10, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001 "2014-10-10T23:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/21 "2014-10-11T08:14:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, that is just icky. Now, sure the girls _showers_, yes. But there’s nothing sexy going on the the womens restroom. That’s just your opinion. (Mine as well, but I seem to vaguely recall evidence of some people disagreeing.) ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/22 "2014-10-11T08:29:48Z")
I’m guessing a comic convention has to consider that some of their visitors will be a bit more unorthodox than, say, a business convention might reasonably expect. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/23 "2014-10-11T08:48:35Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > _Some_ kind of sign is appropriate, but a giant blob of text seems useless, especially since there is no possible way to have a complete list, and the rules are necessarily subject to the interpretation of the staff. “Don’t hit people, don’t be a creeper, and don’t push your luck” would work better IMHO. Maybe they could just post: **Don’t be a jerk** ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/24 "2014-10-11T13:06:11Z")
Harassment at conventions [has become a concern](http://www.jimchines.com/2013/12/harassment-policy-starter-kit/) over the past couple of years. I guess what’s listed on the sign is a list of what’s been reported at various recent cons. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/25 "2014-10-11T14:33:30Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Maybe they could just post: > **Don’t be a jerk** The background to this includes a number of people trying to game the rules by various means, which boil down to “but I can’t be expected to understand what behaving like a jerk/creeper etc is”. Hence the need for a set of clear rules as inclusive as they can make them. And as someone has already said it is hoped that victims and bystanders will also thereby have more confidence in reporting/intervening. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/26 "2014-10-11T15:57:02Z")
When I first read the OP before reading the linked blog post, I figured “bathroom policing” meant acting as a vigilante trying to prevent sexual hookups taking place in bathrooms. Which hookups of all gender mixes probably do happen at cons at least a bit. IOW, just because you don’t care for the two gay guys doin’ it in stall #1, don’t spoil their fun or use it as an excuse to call the cops or start a fistfight. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/27 "2014-10-11T16:24:03Z")
Tickets to these things cost a lot of money. If a creeper is going to be kicked out without a refund, then there need to be rules prominently posted to head off the claims, “how was I supposed to know [being a jerk] was against the rules”. The person who demeans another is not going to be discouraged by a sign, but credible enforcement will encourage victims others to call security and have the offending individual removed. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/28 "2014-10-11T18:40:44Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I suspect at least part of the target audience are those that are being abused, and those who witness abuse. The hope is that they will then be more likely to either challenge the abusive behaviour or report it, whichever is appropriate, rather than just assuming it’s normal and acceptable. This. I’m sure it also helps those that fall into either category feel like the cons are at least taking their concerns seriously. I’d feel somewhat comforted by having them spelled out so explicitly. It could also be for legal reasons. If all that’s posted, they’ve covered their ass if anyone tries to sue. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/29 "2014-10-11T20:47:27Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I suspect at least part of the target audience are those that are being abused, and those who witness abuse. The hope is that they will then be more likely to either challenge the abusive behaviour or report it, whichever is appropriate, rather than just assuming it’s normal and acceptable. That’s a fair point, but I still maintain that a simpler sign would be more effective. > [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > The background to this includes a number of people trying to game the rules by various means, which boil down to “but I can’t be expected to understand what behaving like a jerk/creeper etc is”. Hence the need for a set of clear rules as inclusive as they can make them. And as someone has already said it is hoped that victims and bystanders will also thereby have more confidence in reporting/intervening. Not knowing what a jerk is means you are one and is grounds for ejection. No sign is going to prevent people from whining about being ejected. There is no impartial court to judge whether an ejection was really warranted. It’s up to the staff’s discretion and always will be. In contrast, I think [this](http://imgur.com/fiWXAR9) is an excellent sign (from the same event). It has a simple, clear, memorable message that targets a wide swath of people (both creepers and victims). The small text is still ignorable but the main message is not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/30 "2014-10-11T20:57:37Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > _Some_ kind of sign is appropriate, but a giant blob of text seems useless, especially since there is no possible way to have a complete list, and the rules are necessarily subject to the interpretation of the staff. “Don’t hit people, don’t be a creeper, and don’t push your luck” would work better IMHO. Why don’t they just announce that all the bathrooms are unisex? The rest of the stuff about not assaulting people is AFAICT already covered by the Criminal Code. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/31 "2014-10-11T21:14:46Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That’s a fair point, but I still maintain that a simpler sign would be more effective. > > [snip] > > In contrast, I think [this](http://imgur.com/fiWXAR9) is an excellent sign (from the same event). It has a simple, clear, memorable message that targets a wide swath of people (both creepers and victims). The small text is still ignorable but the main message is not. That large sign is on the reverse of the other sign with all the text, according to other reports on this I’ve read. From what I’ve read, both signs have been well received by the people who attend the cons. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/32 "2014-10-11T22:08:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Why don’t they just announce that all the bathrooms are unisex? The rest of the stuff about not assaulting people is AFAICT already covered by the Criminal Code. > > Regards, > Shodan I wonder if they have the authority to do that, or if that’s up to the Javits center management. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/33 "2014-10-11T22:21:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, that is just icky. Now, sure the girls _showers_, yes. But there’s nothing sexy going on the the womens restroom. N/M ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/34 "2014-10-12T00:54:32Z")
Could someone provide an example of the harassment that is well known for going on at conventions? Before I read the thread I thought the bathroom thing was about people hooking up for sex in the bathroom lol. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/35 "2014-10-12T01:40:32Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Could someone provide an example of the harassment that is well known for going on at conventions? > > Before I read the thread I thought the bathroom thing was about people hooking up for sex in the bathroom lol. Some guy sees a woman cos-playing as his favorite comic/video game character. She’s in a sexy costume. He’ll follow her wanting a photo or to interact some how and gets really pushy when she doesn’t want to. Even putting his hands on her to get a photo or a hug. Boundaries get blurred because folks forget there’s a person under the costume. All they see is the character they control in a game, there in real life. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/36 "2014-10-12T03:07:30Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Some guy sees a woman cos-playing as his favorite comic/video game character. She’s in a sexy costume. He’ll follow her wanting a photo or to interact some how and gets really pushy when she doesn’t want to. Even putting his hands on her to get a photo or a hug. > > Boundaries get blurred because folks forget there’s a person under the costume. All they see is the character they control in a game, there in real life. I mean if you dress up as a character you gotta expect people will take pictures, but the touching thing I can’t believe anyone thought is acceptable. I guess the cons don’t want police around but that is straight up assault and I can’t believe it took this long to address it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/37 "2014-10-12T04:04:03Z")
**grude** , you know how people tend to forget that they are still in the normal universe, with all the normal rules, even if just at a college party or at a bar on vacation? It happens at these events too. > [@Shodan](#): > > The rest of the stuff about not assaulting people is AFAICT already covered by the Criminal Code. And believe it or not, people need to be reminded of that. I remember on the webpage for a Con a few years back something to the efffect of: “Remember that everything that’s illegal out in the street of this city, is just as illegal inside the convention hall. You will be turned over to the authorities.” Still, it’s not out of line to mention what Event Security can intervene with even before having to involve real police. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I wonder if they have the authority to do that, or if that’s up to the Javits center management. That’s indeed another factor – since the venue is in fact owned and operated by someone other than you the organizer, you want to make sure your event participants don’t take upon themselves to try and run the place in a way that will make trouble for you with the owner/operators. … Once the cons grew beyond the original circle of committed fans/geeks who were generally friendly, “Mostly Harmless”, and all into the works and creators, and knew each other outside the con at least on a regional basis, it stopped being practical to enforce “don’t be a jerk” merely through social censure. Jerk conduct for the longest time used to be considered _even by those afflicted_ as just rude behavior, breaches of etiquette, _“Can you BELIEVE that guy?!? Ewwww”; “Hey, buddy: Not. Cool.”_ etc. That only goes so far, because the merely socially oblivious won’t notice what they did wrong unless explicitly told, and the real jerks won’t care. As was mentioned earlier, and as I get from the red-highlighted first paragraph at top of the first-linked sign, the point with the long sign is to advise people who may be _on the receiving end_ of this behavior that there is a way to report it, that it even has been built into the Con App, and that Staff will involve Law Enforcement if necessary (e.g. if the jerkish behavior crosses the line into, say, actual battery). In the case of the true jerks, who will likely try to push the limit, it serves to say “we warned you”. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/38 "2014-10-13T00:29:23Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > … > In contrast, I think [this](http://imgur.com/fiWXAR9) is an excellent sign (from the same event). It has a simple, clear, memorable message that targets a wide swath of people (both creepers and victims). The small text is still ignorable but the main message is not. That is the back of the sign you say is too complicated… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/39 "2014-10-13T01:47:10Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > That is the back of the sign you say is too complicated… **Steophan** pointed this out already, although I fail to see the relevance, especially as I noted in my OP that they were from the same event (and therefore likely to be in proximity anyway). They have a good sign and a less good sign. They should make more signs like the good one. That said, perhaps this kind of message works for some people. Variety in the messaging isn’t all bad. But I still think they could get better results with something that isn’t a tl;dr for most people. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001/40 "2014-10-13T02:59:43Z")
It seems to me that they’ve come up with a kind of creed, and have put some real thought in to it. While posting it in full might not have a huge effect, if you’ve put that much work in to something you might as well hang it up somewhere. It may also be comforting/helpful to potential victims. I’d feel reassured knowing that I was in a place where these kinds of things were taken seriously, as there are plenty of places where they are laughed off or worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-bathroom-policing-harassment-new-york-comiccom/701001.md?page=3)