I remember an Ask the… thread here where someone who used to be a cook in Chinese restaurants explained that, but my search-fu is weak. The naturally-occurring version of glutamic acid (and of its salts) is L-, impure versions contain D- molecules which can block processes for which L-glutamate/glutamic acid are needed.
Except that d-glutamate is also natural and consumed regularly. cite
In fact, it looks like the percentage of d-glutamate in foods with added MSG is actually lower than natural. cite
I’m still perplexed that people think MSG is the culprit. It’s not that there isn’t an outside chance, but given that your own body makes it, it’s pretty hard to see why it always shoots right to the top of possible culprits.
Some questions I have;
Have you both ordered the same thing and eaten them and gotten the same reaction? Does it ever happen if you eat in the restaurant vs eating at home?
Besides some unknown environmental factor I’d say it could be a gluten allergy. Most noodles are made from four basic ingredients: wheat flour, salt, water, and kansui, which is essentially a type of alkaline mineral water.
Perhaps, but you are just as likely to be having a reaction to impurities or additives in anything else, as well.
Does MSG contribute to high blood pressure?
Well I’m not so sure about that. The chemical process that is used to manufacture MSG might lead to an impurity that isn’t found in most other places. It could be an impurity that is relatively unique to MSG.
Please note that I’m not advocating the idea MSG causes these problems. Im a certified hard-core scientist who works toward debunking crap science and chemophobia. I’m just saying the idea of an impurity that is present in only some lots of MSG could explain both the anecdotal descriptions and the lack of solid evidence in strickly scientific studies.
He eats shrimp and mussels, no problem. If he didn’t eat Italian food (including lots of tomato and parmesan) he’d starve in this house. We have pasta a couple of times a week and he’s never reacted to it, so I’d say a gluten allergy is unlikely.
It’s actually mostly happened when we eat in restaurants, versus eating at home - the other night was the first time it had happened with delivered food. I’ve never had the reaction. We never order the same thing. Usually he has a bite of mine but I don’t have any of his.
He’s sceptical of the idea that MSG could cause any reaction, so I think it’s unlikely that it’s psychosomatic. It doesn’t fit the description of the Sichuan peppercorn thing, either - his tongue doesn’t go numb.
I am living with Mystery Man.
Well, glutamate is an unique neurotransmitter that can pass through the blood-brain barrier if consumed. To make neurotransmitters, the brain absorbs amino acids which are then enzymatically transformed into neurotransmitters. It’s a lot more complicated than what I’m leading on but there’s a reason why consuming glutamate is psychoactive. Glutamate is an excitatory transmitter and it’s not surprising that MSG would induce headaches and seizures. If you don’t believe that constituents in your diet can influence how your brain operates: try to consume a meal with very high tryptophan (a nonpolar amino acid that readily passes through the blood-brain barrier ) levels. Excess dietary tryptophan is first converted to serotonin then finally to melatonin. The latter induces sleep in the mammalian brain. Go on. Try it and come back and tell us of your experience with Mr. Sandman. Once you complete that, we can move on consuming high quantities of nutmeg.
I have never said that it is impossible for glutamate to cause a reaction. I just think that it is unlikely, particularly given the clinical research has yet to establish a connection.
And no, foods high in tryptophan do not tend to make me sleepy. I think that the Thanksgiving turkey myth has been thoroughly debunked.
As is an MSG allergy, as both tomatoes and parmesan contain it.
I’ll say it again: I think it’s nuts.
Try nutmeg.
Does nutmeg have tryptophan in it? Does it have any other natural amino acid that could cause a reaction? I’m not sure I understand why nutmeg is relevant here. There are plenty of natural compounds with significant physiological effects.
I have an allergic reaction to sesame oil and have to watch what I eat at chinese restaraunts. If he can eat hummus with no problem then it’s probably not sesame oil. Just my two cents.
Methyl
What perplexes me is why people think that just because the body produces something it most be physiologically inactive.
Your body also produces alcohol, carbon dioxide and hydrogen peroxide. That doesn’t mean that all those things are inert and psychologically inactive when they enter your bloodstream in large amounts from an external source.
Whether t your body produces a chemical or not tells you nothing at all about whether its activity when consumed in food.
The only thing that perplexes me Blake, is that it runs right to the top of the list. In particular, given the clinical research that can’t establish a real connection. I guess I am also a little perplexed that you are perplexed at this rather basic statement.
Perhapse if you read where I clearly state that a reaction to MSG is not impossible, you will actually be interpreting what I say correctly.
SO when you said “given that your own body makes it, it’s pretty hard to see why it always shoots right to the top of possible culprits” you actually meant “given that clinical research can’t establish a real connection, it’s pretty hard to see why it always shoots right to the top of possible culprits”.
In that case you needn’t be mystified at all.
You’ll find that most people around here assume that you mean what you post, not what you you are thinking. When you state clearly that you are mystified due to the fact that a substance is made by your own body, most people are going to think that is the reason for your mystification. Because, you know, that’s what you explicitly gave as the reason for it.
If you meant that the source of your mystification was a lack of evidence, then you should have given that as the reason for your mystification. That would stop others being mystified by your mystifying attribution to completely irrelevant facts, such as the body producing the material.
I hope this helped.
The source of the mystification is both that your own body makes it, and the lack of research, but I see I need to qualify that further. It is a basic amino acid found all over. I have had many discussions with people about MSG. They are usually under the impression that MSG is some completely unnatural chemical. It often needs to pointed out that this is not the case.
Yep, that’s what I meant about the tomatoes and parmesan - they seem to tentatively rule out MSG.
He eats nuts in plenty of other foods with no problem, so that doesn’t seem too likely either. (Actually, though, I’m not sure he eats cashews in any other context. I may try him with a couple and see what we get.)
Methyl, what you said about sesame oil is interesting, though. I don’t know if he’s ever eaten hummus, and we don’t cook with sesame oil. Maybe another one to try.
Is there a way we could try these out to minimise the risk of, like, killing him if he is allergic? I know zip about allergies, except that nut ones can be serious. Should we do a sesame oil patch test to see if he comes out in a rash?
It’s hardly Chinese, but I thought I’d mention Lipton’s diet green tea. I had it once in a restaurant and had to quit drinking it because it made my tongue feel tingly and itchy. Very weird. What the hell did they put in it?
Love to offer advice, eclectic, but IANAD and wouldn’t want to be the guilty party for (possibly) killing your hubby. Best of luck and let us know how everything turns out.
Methyl